4 ms·

All this feels like 1984... While reading it I got anxious,stressed and wanting to exercise. It has to be horrible that the only hour a day that you can really

by joakin 16y ago

All this feels like 1984... While reading it I got anxious,stressed and wanting to exercise. It has to be horrible that the only hour a day that you can really move the only thing to do is walking. FREE Manning, innocent until proved guilty

Confusion 16y ago
The point most people want to make is not that he may be treated in this way if he has been proven to be guilty, but this is exactly what you are doing in the eyes of people that consider the treatment acceptable. The constant calls upon the 'innocent until proven guilty' mantra are a huge red herring. If you want to argue the treatment is wrong, you should argue exactly that and not argue against the treatment based on the current circumstances. Effectively, this argument achieves the exact opposite of what you want: it strengthens the other side in their belief that Manning may be treated in this way. This is because of two things: - he's in the military - he's pretty much confessed People feel that 'innocent until proved guilty' is not really an issue because of those two things and arguing against that feeling is a colossal waste of time, when what you actually want is to convince people that Manning shouldn't be treated like he currently is, period.
- arethuza 16y ago
  While I can't comment on the details of this case, it is perhaps worth noting that lots of people confess to crimes they didn't commit for a variety of reasons including coercion and/or mental illness.
  - yardie 16y ago
    I would also add bragging. People claim to be pimps, drug dealers, and tax cheats for some reason. Then you get the ones that brag about acquaintance rape. People say all types of things for seriously strange reasons.
  - ugh 16y ago
    The grandparent doesn’t express any personal belief about the veracity of Manning’s confession. Her or his last sentence is the important one: “People feel that ‘innocent until proved guilty’ is not really an issue because of those two things (i.e. because Manning confessed and is in the military) and arguing against that feeling (i.e. the feeling of people that Manning is guilty) is a colossal waste of time, when what you actually want is to convince people that Manning shouldn't be treated like he currently is, period.” (Emphasis and annotations in brackets mine.)
- jbooth 16y ago
  "Innocent until proven guilty" doesn't mean "Innocent until proven guilty unless we really think he's gonna turn out to be guilty"
nhangen 16y ago
Military law is different than civilian law. The UCMJ often operates with judge and jury.

by joakin 16y ago

Confusion 16y ago

The point most people want to make is not that he may be treated in this way if he has been proven to be guilty, but this is exactly what you are doing in the eyes of people that consider the treatment acceptable. The constant calls upon the 'innocent until proven guilty' mantra are a huge red herring. If you want to argue the treatment is wrong, you should argue exactly that and not argue against the treatment based on the current circumstances. Effectively, this argument achieves the exact opposite of what you want: it strengthens the other side in their belief that Manning may be treated in this way. This is because of two things: - he's in the military - he's pretty much confessed People feel that 'innocent until proved guilty' is not really an issue because of those two things and arguing against that feeling is a colossal waste of time, when what you actually want is to convince people that Manning shouldn't be treated like he currently is, period.

arethuza 16y ago
While I can't comment on the details of this case, it is perhaps worth noting that lots of people confess to crimes they didn't commit for a variety of reasons including coercion and/or mental illness.
- yardie 16y ago
  I would also add bragging. People claim to be pimps, drug dealers, and tax cheats for some reason. Then you get the ones that brag about acquaintance rape. People say all types of things for seriously strange reasons.
- ugh 16y ago
  The grandparent doesn’t express any personal belief about the veracity of Manning’s confession. Her or his last sentence is the important one: “People feel that ‘innocent until proved guilty’ is not really an issue because of those two things (i.e. because Manning confessed and is in the military) and arguing against that feeling (i.e. the feeling of people that Manning is guilty) is a colossal waste of time, when what you actually want is to convince people that Manning shouldn't be treated like he currently is, period.” (Emphasis and annotations in brackets mine.)
jbooth 16y ago
"Innocent until proven guilty" doesn't mean "Innocent until proven guilty unless we really think he's gonna turn out to be guilty"

nhangen 16y ago

Military law is different than civilian law. The UCMJ often operates with judge and jury.