6 ms·

Kinect sex game will not become reality, Microsoft says

24 points by badwetter 16y ago

adulau 16y ago
I just remembered the article "Pornography Drives Technology: Why Not to Censor the Internet" while reading the article: http://www.law.indiana.edu/fclj/pubs/v49/no1/johnson.html http://www.law.indiana.edu/fclj/pubs/v49/no1/johnson.html
- Mz 16y ago
  Excerpt: Pornography has several values beyond serving as a test-driver for new media. As suggested above in the Betamax-VHS battle, porn, with little cash to spare and its nose to the ground, is often first to sniff out the practical uses of new media, leading the way for profitable investment by the mainstream. Furthermore, porn draws curiosity seekers, who stay to see what else the new media can do. There is a convenient dovetailing in the audience for computers and pornography: young, white males dominate both markets. Gadget-playing, girl-crazy young men will stay longer at a terminal that supplies both girls and gadgets.(48) Finally, several studies have suggested that, far from creating sexist, violent feelings in young men, pornography has a calming, cathartic effect, easing adolescent cares with a dose of mild erotica.(49) Other values of pornography have been suggested. For one thing, the very fear that pornography arouses in parents may redound to society's advantage. In order to keep indecent messages from reaching their computer-literate children, parents themselves must become computer-literate and learn to use blocking and screening devices. If Congress is allowed to assume the parental role, parents will have less incentive to learn what their children already know.(50) Furthermore, far from fearing what computer sex may be teaching, parents can use the computer as an opportunity to discuss sex in a meaningful way with their children.(51) Finally, sex on the computer is far better for children than another kind of sex that is drawing Congressional fire, that is, sex on television.(52) While sex and violence on television shoulder the blame for sex and violence in society, several studies have suggested that something else about television is the real culprit. That is, the passive, solitary nature of television-watching is an anti-social activity, which steals children's time away from more active, engaging kinds of play. Thus, when children erupt in violence after watching television, it is not because they have been watching too much sex or violence but because they have been watching too much television.(53) Computers, by contrast, are interactive and socializing, feeding the very skills that TV starves. Therefore, anything, including the risque, that entices children from the TV to the computer is a good thing.(54) I will add that porn has educational value in its own right. People who are all uptight and judgmental about porn are typically also all uptight and judgmental about sex generally. For many youth, these illicit forms of sexual materials are the best education they can pursue on a topic that is pretty vital to quality of life (for a variety of reasons). Asking uptight adults isn't going to get them useful, meaningful feedback (and may result in disinformation -- or even punishment) and asking other people their own age is likely to get them little or no information, mixed up with a lot of misinformation. Porn has the additional advantage that while it transmits information, it doesn't transmit disease or cause pregnancy.
morphir 16y ago
The perverts will win. Simply because there is too big of a market for this to be ignored.
- geoka9 16y ago
  Essentially you are saying that many people will win because too many people are perverts for this perverse demand to be ignored, right?
  - morphir 16y ago
    Essentially I'm saying that the developers/distributors that make these kind of products will find a way to reach their customers some way or another. Just because microsoft makes this statement may indeed hinder the market from developing in the early beginnings. But it will not stop the perverts in the long run. Not that I'm against this product in any particular way - as I think people are to be free to explore their sexual fantasies. I am saying however, that the market will be (probably) too big to be ignored.
- kleiba 16y ago
  Define "perverts".
  - morphir 16y ago
    there is no need for me to define perverts. But according to wikipedia...: Perversion is a concept describing those types of human behavior that are a serious deviation from what is considered to be orthodox or normal. ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pervert
tdoggette 16y ago
Like hell it won't. Microsoft's approval isn't the only way to get code running on a 360, and the Kinect is wide open. I give it a couple of months before everyone can happily thrust their hips at their televisions and rack up orgasm points.
- iwwr 16y ago
  Can Microsoft sue companies that release Kinect-based products that are not licensed (and specifically required to work on the xbox 360)?
  - devicenull 16y ago
    I would think the DMCA 'reverse engineering for compatibility' exception would prevent that.
    - iwwr 16y ago
      Wasn't someone selling unlocked xboxes fined and/or imprisoned recently?
jaysonelliot 16y ago
If it weren't for sex, none of us would be here today. Yet we still hold some kind of Puritanical censor in our minds that tells us it's the worst possible thing in society. How ironic that it should be banned on the Xbox, where you can encounter every form of violence and gore imaginable. Would some 3D rendered boobs have been ok if they were zombie boobs?
- philbo 16y ago
  Good point. Is a game that simulates sex somehow less ethically acceptable than one that simulates murder or warfare?
  - tptacek 16y ago
    No. It is equally bad to put realistic violence in the hands of grade school kids; I won't let my 11 year old play Call of Duty, and am actually a little queasy about Halo. I don't like that AO does to gaming what NC-17 does to movies; adults should be free to play adult-themed games. But I also don't see it as a great loss to humanity. It sucks a little that Microsoft and Sony are catering to a lazy style of parenting, but you can write those games for an uncensored platform instead.
    - arethuza 16y ago
      I'm not sure that video games really make exposure to violence that much worse - certainly when I was in my youth in the '70s we didn't have video games but we did have imaginations that turned just about anything we could get our hands on into an imaginary weapon (being in the UK the Bad Guys were, of course, the Germans). I let my 11 year old play CoD and Halo - sometimes with a twinge of concern but as all his friends do it would have to be more than a twinge to make me stop him. I don't think this has impaired his view of violence in the real world - we watched a TV recreation of the events of Bloody Sunday and he was genuinely shocked by the behavior of British soldiers even though his school has an Army Cadet unit and he has friends with big brothers in the forces.
      - 16y ago
cubicle67 16y ago
After watching the demo, it looks like it should be pretty simple to transform it into some sort of Tickle Me Elmo game though
mrcharles 16y ago
This is a very big problem in the games industry right now, because all controlled platforms have committed to not selling adult only games. The consequences of which have filtered all the way down the chain, and the chilling effect is seen almost every single day in the games industry. The problem is that if you get an ESRB AO rating, no one will publish it, because everyone believes that Adults Only means porn or gratuitous sex. And maybe it does. But it can also mean violence, or mature content, or things which are simply not appropriate for non-adults. I don't think the distinction should actually exist, honestly, but that's a separate discussion. But the problem is if you consider a game of some sort that has extensive use of graphic violence, then you put yourself directly in line for a bit censorship banhammer. NC-17 films can still be made. But effectively, AO games cannot, as the market space for it is artificially shrunk through censorship. So any time you are working on a game, and the violence or sex or maturity of content starts reaching a potential AO level, it gets cut, or toned down. There are game ideas right now which can never be made, thanks to platform censorship. It holds the industry back.
- hugh3 16y ago
  There are game ideas right now which can never be made, thanks to platform censorship. It holds the industry back. Uhhh huh. And do you think we're really missing out on some great works of art which can't fit under the sex-and-violence low bar set by the Grand Theft Auto series? "Adult-themed" games have existed in the past, from Custer's Last Stand to Soft Porn Adventure. As far as I know none has actually been good, and despite the "adults only" label have appealed only to sniggering twelve-year-old boys.
  - mrcharles 16y ago
    This kind of argument is exactly the kind which leads to the problems. First, you assume that AO means sex. Second, you assume that if it's AO, it can't be subjectively of high quality. The easiest way to shoot down your arguments is to google lists of movies rated NC-17, which is the rating which disallows anyone under 18 from watching a movie, and which is the functional equivalent of ESRB's AO. Among that list you will see movies like Requiem for a Dream, and documentaries like This Film is Not Yet Rated, which is actually very relevant to this whole discussion. (The film actually chose to be unrated, as being rated would have earned the documentary NC-17).
kristofferR 16y ago
This is a really stupid article. Everybody knew that Microsoft would never approve a sex game for the Xbox 360, but this was never about that. They're integrating Kinect support into their already existing Windows sex games using the thriXXX engine. They're using open source Kinect drivers and software to make it possible, they don't need (or want) Microsoft's approval. Microsoft can't do anything to stop this. You can read the full press release at http://kinecthacks.net/kinect-sex/ http://kinecthacks.net/kinect-sex/ . It's pretty what they meant.

24 points by badwetter 16y ago

I just remembered the article "Pornography Drives Technology: Why Not to Censor the Internet" while reading the article: http://www.law.indiana.edu/fclj/pubs/v49/no1/johnson.html http://www.law.indiana.edu/fclj/pubs/v49/no1/johnson.html

Mz 16y ago
Excerpt: Pornography has several values beyond serving as a test-driver for new media. As suggested above in the Betamax-VHS battle, porn, with little cash to spare and its nose to the ground, is often first to sniff out the practical uses of new media, leading the way for profitable investment by the mainstream. Furthermore, porn draws curiosity seekers, who stay to see what else the new media can do. There is a convenient dovetailing in the audience for computers and pornography: young, white males dominate both markets. Gadget-playing, girl-crazy young men will stay longer at a terminal that supplies both girls and gadgets.(48) Finally, several studies have suggested that, far from creating sexist, violent feelings in young men, pornography has a calming, cathartic effect, easing adolescent cares with a dose of mild erotica.(49) Other values of pornography have been suggested. For one thing, the very fear that pornography arouses in parents may redound to society's advantage. In order to keep indecent messages from reaching their computer-literate children, parents themselves must become computer-literate and learn to use blocking and screening devices. If Congress is allowed to assume the parental role, parents will have less incentive to learn what their children already know.(50) Furthermore, far from fearing what computer sex may be teaching, parents can use the computer as an opportunity to discuss sex in a meaningful way with their children.(51) Finally, sex on the computer is far better for children than another kind of sex that is drawing Congressional fire, that is, sex on television.(52) While sex and violence on television shoulder the blame for sex and violence in society, several studies have suggested that something else about television is the real culprit. That is, the passive, solitary nature of television-watching is an anti-social activity, which steals children's time away from more active, engaging kinds of play. Thus, when children erupt in violence after watching television, it is not because they have been watching too much sex or violence but because they have been watching too much television.(53) Computers, by contrast, are interactive and socializing, feeding the very skills that TV starves. Therefore, anything, including the risque, that entices children from the TV to the computer is a good thing.(54) I will add that porn has educational value in its own right. People who are all uptight and judgmental about porn are typically also all uptight and judgmental about sex generally. For many youth, these illicit forms of sexual materials are the best education they can pursue on a topic that is pretty vital to quality of life (for a variety of reasons). Asking uptight adults isn't going to get them useful, meaningful feedback (and may result in disinformation -- or even punishment) and asking other people their own age is likely to get them little or no information, mixed up with a lot of misinformation. Porn has the additional advantage that while it transmits information, it doesn't transmit disease or cause pregnancy.

morphir 16y ago

The perverts will win. Simply because there is too big of a market for this to be ignored.

geoka9 16y ago
Essentially you are saying that many people will win because too many people are perverts for this perverse demand to be ignored, right?
- morphir 16y ago
  Essentially I'm saying that the developers/distributors that make these kind of products will find a way to reach their customers some way or another. Just because microsoft makes this statement may indeed hinder the market from developing in the early beginnings. But it will not stop the perverts in the long run. Not that I'm against this product in any particular way - as I think people are to be free to explore their sexual fantasies. I am saying however, that the market will be (probably) too big to be ignored.
kleiba 16y ago
Define "perverts".
- morphir 16y ago
  there is no need for me to define perverts. But according to wikipedia...: Perversion is a concept describing those types of human behavior that are a serious deviation from what is considered to be orthodox or normal. ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pervert

tdoggette 16y ago

Like hell it won't. Microsoft's approval isn't the only way to get code running on a 360, and the Kinect is wide open. I give it a couple of months before everyone can happily thrust their hips at their televisions and rack up orgasm points.

iwwr 16y ago
Can Microsoft sue companies that release Kinect-based products that are not licensed (and specifically required to work on the xbox 360)?
- devicenull 16y ago
  I would think the DMCA 'reverse engineering for compatibility' exception would prevent that.
  - iwwr 16y ago
    Wasn't someone selling unlocked xboxes fined and/or imprisoned recently?

jaysonelliot 16y ago

If it weren't for sex, none of us would be here today. Yet we still hold some kind of Puritanical censor in our minds that tells us it's the worst possible thing in society. How ironic that it should be banned on the Xbox, where you can encounter every form of violence and gore imaginable. Would some 3D rendered boobs have been ok if they were zombie boobs?

philbo 16y ago
Good point. Is a game that simulates sex somehow less ethically acceptable than one that simulates murder or warfare?
- tptacek 16y ago
  No. It is equally bad to put realistic violence in the hands of grade school kids; I won't let my 11 year old play Call of Duty, and am actually a little queasy about Halo. I don't like that AO does to gaming what NC-17 does to movies; adults should be free to play adult-themed games. But I also don't see it as a great loss to humanity. It sucks a little that Microsoft and Sony are catering to a lazy style of parenting, but you can write those games for an uncensored platform instead.
  - arethuza 16y ago
    I'm not sure that video games really make exposure to violence that much worse - certainly when I was in my youth in the '70s we didn't have video games but we did have imaginations that turned just about anything we could get our hands on into an imaginary weapon (being in the UK the Bad Guys were, of course, the Germans). I let my 11 year old play CoD and Halo - sometimes with a twinge of concern but as all his friends do it would have to be more than a twinge to make me stop him. I don't think this has impaired his view of violence in the real world - we watched a TV recreation of the events of Bloody Sunday and he was genuinely shocked by the behavior of British soldiers even though his school has an Army Cadet unit and he has friends with big brothers in the forces.
    - 16y ago

cubicle67 16y ago

After watching the demo, it looks like it should be pretty simple to transform it into some sort of Tickle Me Elmo game though

mrcharles 16y ago

This is a very big problem in the games industry right now, because all controlled platforms have committed to not selling adult only games. The consequences of which have filtered all the way down the chain, and the chilling effect is seen almost every single day in the games industry. The problem is that if you get an ESRB AO rating, no one will publish it, because everyone believes that Adults Only means porn or gratuitous sex. And maybe it does. But it can also mean violence, or mature content, or things which are simply not appropriate for non-adults. I don't think the distinction should actually exist, honestly, but that's a separate discussion. But the problem is if you consider a game of some sort that has extensive use of graphic violence, then you put yourself directly in line for a bit censorship banhammer. NC-17 films can still be made. But effectively, AO games cannot, as the market space for it is artificially shrunk through censorship. So any time you are working on a game, and the violence or sex or maturity of content starts reaching a potential AO level, it gets cut, or toned down. There are game ideas right now which can never be made, thanks to platform censorship. It holds the industry back.

hugh3 16y ago
There are game ideas right now which can never be made, thanks to platform censorship. It holds the industry back. Uhhh huh. And do you think we're really missing out on some great works of art which can't fit under the sex-and-violence low bar set by the Grand Theft Auto series? "Adult-themed" games have existed in the past, from Custer's Last Stand to Soft Porn Adventure. As far as I know none has actually been good, and despite the "adults only" label have appealed only to sniggering twelve-year-old boys.
- mrcharles 16y ago
  This kind of argument is exactly the kind which leads to the problems. First, you assume that AO means sex. Second, you assume that if it's AO, it can't be subjectively of high quality. The easiest way to shoot down your arguments is to google lists of movies rated NC-17, which is the rating which disallows anyone under 18 from watching a movie, and which is the functional equivalent of ESRB's AO. Among that list you will see movies like Requiem for a Dream, and documentaries like This Film is Not Yet Rated, which is actually very relevant to this whole discussion. (The film actually chose to be unrated, as being rated would have earned the documentary NC-17).

kristofferR 16y ago

This is a really stupid article. Everybody knew that Microsoft would never approve a sex game for the Xbox 360, but this was never about that. They're integrating Kinect support into their already existing Windows sex games using the thriXXX engine. They're using open source Kinect drivers and software to make it possible, they don't need (or want) Microsoft's approval. Microsoft can't do anything to stop this. You can read the full press release at http://kinecthacks.net/kinect-sex/ http://kinecthacks.net/kinect-sex/ . It's pretty what they meant.