5 ms·

Nope. New buildings are exempt.

andy_ppp 7y ago
So living in new buildings becomes undesirable even further because they are more expensive to live in than the rest of the city!
- iagooar 7y ago
  No, new buildings are desirable because they're new and will always find buyers, especially if built in a nice neighborhood.
  - andy_ppp 7y ago
    Let's just thing this through: I have the option to buy a rental property in Berlin, I can either buy an old rental property and not be allowed to increase rents for 5 years. Or I can buy a new build rental property (which already sell for above market value in most places), and can charge more rent but I will be less able to find renters as they are looking to lock in 5 years worth of zero rent increase. I really don't get how either situation encourages me to become a landlord.
    - iagooar 7y ago
      Berlin doesn't need landlords. It needs homes for people.
      - username444 7y ago
        This. Cities don't want or need more landlords. It needs more landOWNER residents.
        max_hoffmann 7y ago
        What’s so good about owning? Renting is way better, if it’s affordable: - I can move out when my life circumstances change. - I can move out when the district changes. - I don’t need to take a credit just for living somewhere. - I don’t need to worry about people renting my apartments. - I don’t need to worry about maintenance. If you have the money to buy fine, but for most people renting is way better.
        username444 7y ago
        It's a completely separate argument than what I was responding to. I personally agree with you, but thats my specific lifestyle, and I put my money into other investments. But generally, owning a house is a good place to park your assets if you live a "typical" life. One of the biggest reasons I want more landOWNER residents? So that my neighbours actually care what's happening in the neighborhood+condo, and do something about. I'm renting from a Chinese investor. He doesn't speak English and doesn't have a clue what's going on around here, and doesn't care to get involved with helping things run better. I can communicate my issues with the real estate agent who handles the unit for him, but he's just going to shoot off a short email and move on with his day. Over 50% of this building is this way. The board of directors has a huge accountability issue because of this, and residents and owners are suffering for it. If you rent, you care what happens locally, but you have no say.
    - Vinnl 7y ago
      Can't you (as a hypothetical landlord) simply ask the same rent for the new housing as you'd ask without this measure? Then it should be about as easy as it is now to find renters (as this measure does not affect supply), and just as attractive to become a landlord as it is now. (Granted, demand for existing housing should increase if they are cheaper, but presumably supply will decrease as well as fewer people living there will move out - so I guess it shouldn't affect the pricing of new housing much?)
  - codedokode 7y ago
    I doubt that. In old cities like Berlin the best places are in the center because everything is there and there is good public transport access. And new houses are probably built somewhere in suburbs where there is no good transport, no subway, no train stations, nothing except for houses.
    - ido 7y ago
      have you ever been to berlin? plenty of new construction in central areas. either by razzing older, lower-rise, buildings or by filling in unbuilt or blighted areas (fewer of those as time goes on but there were vast areas where the walls & no-mans zones used to occupy).
      - llampx 7y ago
        As others have said, a lot of new construction is hotels, shopping centers, and office space.
      - andy_ppp 7y ago
        Berlin is a weird city isn’t it; when I was there Mitte really wasn’t great because of the wall and there being effectively a West and East German centre to the city or rather it felt like every region had its own charm say.
- perennate 7y ago
  If low rent-controlled prices leads to increased demand, then new buildings may become more desirable to build because their rent prices could be even higher than they otherwise would be.
- tmalsburg2 7y ago
  If there is more demand than supply, no.
  - andy_ppp 7y ago
    No because the developer will just charge more for the new properties and old property prices will be worth less.
JanSt 7y ago
Would you use your savings to build property in a city with policies like this? How long will new property be exempt? 5 years? What then? Nearly no one will build anything anymore.
- tmalsburg2 7y ago
  I would absolutely consider building in a city that has so much demand and that is so deperate to slow down the development of the real estate market.
- icebraining 7y ago
  This is essentially a tax. People still buy and sell things that have taxes levied on them. Yes, too big a tax could spell very real trouble (I've seen it happen in my city), but as long as rents are allowed to rise with inflation, construction should remain profitable.
cperciva 7y ago
... for now. But there's a funny thing about investors: They look at what governments have done in the past to judge the risk of things happening in the future. Set a precedent that you'll meddle in the market for political reasons, and every potential real estate investor will be worried that you'll do it again in the future -- even if you're not doing it to them yet.

So living in new buildings becomes undesirable even further because they are more expensive to live in than the rest of the city!

iagooar 7y ago
No, new buildings are desirable because they're new and will always find buyers, especially if built in a nice neighborhood.
- andy_ppp 7y ago
  Let's just thing this through: I have the option to buy a rental property in Berlin, I can either buy an old rental property and not be allowed to increase rents for 5 years. Or I can buy a new build rental property (which already sell for above market value in most places), and can charge more rent but I will be less able to find renters as they are looking to lock in 5 years worth of zero rent increase. I really don't get how either situation encourages me to become a landlord.
  - iagooar 7y ago
    Berlin doesn't need landlords. It needs homes for people.
    - username444 7y ago
      This. Cities don't want or need more landlords. It needs more landOWNER residents.
      - max_hoffmann 7y ago
        What’s so good about owning? Renting is way better, if it’s affordable: - I can move out when my life circumstances change. - I can move out when the district changes. - I don’t need to take a credit just for living somewhere. - I don’t need to worry about people renting my apartments. - I don’t need to worry about maintenance. If you have the money to buy fine, but for most people renting is way better.
        username444 7y ago
        It's a completely separate argument than what I was responding to. I personally agree with you, but thats my specific lifestyle, and I put my money into other investments. But generally, owning a house is a good place to park your assets if you live a "typical" life. One of the biggest reasons I want more landOWNER residents? So that my neighbours actually care what's happening in the neighborhood+condo, and do something about. I'm renting from a Chinese investor. He doesn't speak English and doesn't have a clue what's going on around here, and doesn't care to get involved with helping things run better. I can communicate my issues with the real estate agent who handles the unit for him, but he's just going to shoot off a short email and move on with his day. Over 50% of this building is this way. The board of directors has a huge accountability issue because of this, and residents and owners are suffering for it. If you rent, you care what happens locally, but you have no say.
  - Vinnl 7y ago
    Can't you (as a hypothetical landlord) simply ask the same rent for the new housing as you'd ask without this measure? Then it should be about as easy as it is now to find renters (as this measure does not affect supply), and just as attractive to become a landlord as it is now. (Granted, demand for existing housing should increase if they are cheaper, but presumably supply will decrease as well as fewer people living there will move out - so I guess it shouldn't affect the pricing of new housing much?)
- codedokode 7y ago
  I doubt that. In old cities like Berlin the best places are in the center because everything is there and there is good public transport access. And new houses are probably built somewhere in suburbs where there is no good transport, no subway, no train stations, nothing except for houses.
  - ido 7y ago
    have you ever been to berlin? plenty of new construction in central areas. either by razzing older, lower-rise, buildings or by filling in unbuilt or blighted areas (fewer of those as time goes on but there were vast areas where the walls & no-mans zones used to occupy).
    - llampx 7y ago
      As others have said, a lot of new construction is hotels, shopping centers, and office space.
    - andy_ppp 7y ago
      Berlin is a weird city isn’t it; when I was there Mitte really wasn’t great because of the wall and there being effectively a West and East German centre to the city or rather it felt like every region had its own charm say.
perennate 7y ago
If low rent-controlled prices leads to increased demand, then new buildings may become more desirable to build because their rent prices could be even higher than they otherwise would be.
tmalsburg2 7y ago
If there is more demand than supply, no.
- andy_ppp 7y ago
  No because the developer will just charge more for the new properties and old property prices will be worth less.

JanSt 7y ago

Would you use your savings to build property in a city with policies like this? How long will new property be exempt? 5 years? What then? Nearly no one will build anything anymore.

tmalsburg2 7y ago
I would absolutely consider building in a city that has so much demand and that is so deperate to slow down the development of the real estate market.
icebraining 7y ago
This is essentially a tax. People still buy and sell things that have taxes levied on them. Yes, too big a tax could spell very real trouble (I've seen it happen in my city), but as long as rents are allowed to rise with inflation, construction should remain profitable.

cperciva 7y ago

... for now. But there's a funny thing about investors: They look at what governments have done in the past to judge the risk of things happening in the future. Set a precedent that you'll meddle in the market for political reasons, and every potential real estate investor will be worried that you'll do it again in the future -- even if you're not doing it to them yet.