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Not a counter point to this article, but a counter point to the efficacy of monetary rewards. > "Study showed that monetary incentives are great for routine, m

Not a counter point to this article, but a counter point to the efficacy of monetary rewards. > "Study showed that monetary incentives are great for routine, mechanical work. But how does it play when talking about cognitive, advanced tasks? Not well at all." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgKKPQiRRag https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgKKPQiRRag Counter-counter point: If anyone ever points you to this for evidence _you_ shouldn't get a bonus/monetary reward system, ask if _they_ get a bonus/monetary reward system...

balfirevic 7y ago
Maybe they will respond that management is basically routine, mechanical work ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
lostphilosopher 7y ago
> "Every day was a hot new idea and yesterday’s priority was forgotten. Why bother making progress towards a goal that will change tomorrow?" ("Rob's" comment on the OP's article) This to me is the single biggest killer of motivation / productivity. If you've got this problem, I agree with the video that even large monetary rewards won't salvage productivity.
- brokenmachine 7y ago
  I agree that is bad, but what about a bureaucracy where everything is so convoluted that you can never get any idea off the ground?
Someone1234 7y ago
This is a different topic than the article and the discussion so far. A yearly bonus or a "thank you"/party/etc aren't rewards tied to specific tasks. They're meant to be gestures of appropriation. You're discussing a bonus structure that ties financial incentives to very specific work items, and rewards them accordingly. I'm not disagreeing with your point, just pointing out they're two different topics.
- rdiddly 7y ago
  Appropriation or appreciation? If it's appropriation I'm intrigued! Like what if someone shows up to an event you planned, and starts thanking people for coming. They're basically implying/claiming ownership of the event. Appropriation through appreciation. In other words what if you thought a project was yours, and then someone appropriates it by thanking your team, implying it was for that person all along?
radcon 7y ago
I don't think one reward method is objectively better than any other because individuals are all motivated by different things. Some people want to feel appreciated, some want to feel like their work makes a difference in the world, and some really are motivated by huge wads of cash.
pwodhouse 7y ago
That study is probably true but does it apply to engineers, people who are paid to be logical and rational as much as possible? Your efficient-because-people-are-irrational reward system is demotivating your best people. I feel happier when I get a bonus that brings retirement closer, or lets me give more to charotsbt causes I believe in, or gives me a day off, instead of a throwaway toy or schwag or a gift card or a meal at an expensive restaurant that doesn't serve food I can eat.
thomascgalvin 7y ago
I'm completely uninterested in bonuses, because they're a one-time thing. A merit increase at the end of the year stays with you for the rest of your career. A $1,000 bonus is gone as soon as it's spent. I've seen some organizations that use bonuses to cover over the fact that people aren't getting raises, and I would expect people who do cognitive tasks to be better able to run the math on why that's bad.
hnick 7y ago
I can't watch the video, so maybe it was covered, but it can also have the opposite effect. Applying a reward or a fine pegs a "price" to the action and can produce something opposite to the desired outcome. The common example is if a daycare has parents frequently turning up late for pick up, so they have to stay open late. So they decided to apply a surcharge for latecomers in a study. The problem got worse, since the the value of the fine was less impactful than the guilt felt by most parents. It was now seen as more acceptable to be late. Example write-up: http://freakonomics.com/2013/10/23/what-makes-people-do-what-they-do/ http://freakonomics.com/2013/10/23/what-makes-people-do-what...
c0vfefe 7y ago
It keeps people happy who might otherwise leave.

balfirevic 7y ago

Maybe they will respond that management is basically routine, mechanical work ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

lostphilosopher 7y ago

> "Every day was a hot new idea and yesterday’s priority was forgotten. Why bother making progress towards a goal that will change tomorrow?" ("Rob's" comment on the OP's article) This to me is the single biggest killer of motivation / productivity. If you've got this problem, I agree with the video that even large monetary rewards won't salvage productivity.

brokenmachine 7y ago
I agree that is bad, but what about a bureaucracy where everything is so convoluted that you can never get any idea off the ground?

Someone1234 7y ago

This is a different topic than the article and the discussion so far. A yearly bonus or a "thank you"/party/etc aren't rewards tied to specific tasks. They're meant to be gestures of appropriation. You're discussing a bonus structure that ties financial incentives to very specific work items, and rewards them accordingly. I'm not disagreeing with your point, just pointing out they're two different topics.

rdiddly 7y ago
Appropriation or appreciation? If it's appropriation I'm intrigued! Like what if someone shows up to an event you planned, and starts thanking people for coming. They're basically implying/claiming ownership of the event. Appropriation through appreciation. In other words what if you thought a project was yours, and then someone appropriates it by thanking your team, implying it was for that person all along?

radcon 7y ago

I don't think one reward method is objectively better than any other because individuals are all motivated by different things. Some people want to feel appreciated, some want to feel like their work makes a difference in the world, and some really are motivated by huge wads of cash.

pwodhouse 7y ago

That study is probably true but does it apply to engineers, people who are paid to be logical and rational as much as possible? Your efficient-because-people-are-irrational reward system is demotivating your best people. I feel happier when I get a bonus that brings retirement closer, or lets me give more to charotsbt causes I believe in, or gives me a day off, instead of a throwaway toy or schwag or a gift card or a meal at an expensive restaurant that doesn't serve food I can eat.

thomascgalvin 7y ago

I'm completely uninterested in bonuses, because they're a one-time thing. A merit increase at the end of the year stays with you for the rest of your career. A $1,000 bonus is gone as soon as it's spent. I've seen some organizations that use bonuses to cover over the fact that people aren't getting raises, and I would expect people who do cognitive tasks to be better able to run the math on why that's bad.

hnick 7y ago

I can't watch the video, so maybe it was covered, but it can also have the opposite effect. Applying a reward or a fine pegs a "price" to the action and can produce something opposite to the desired outcome. The common example is if a daycare has parents frequently turning up late for pick up, so they have to stay open late. So they decided to apply a surcharge for latecomers in a study. The problem got worse, since the the value of the fine was less impactful than the guilt felt by most parents. It was now seen as more acceptable to be late. Example write-up: http://freakonomics.com/2013/10/23/what-makes-people-do-what-they-do/ http://freakonomics.com/2013/10/23/what-makes-people-do-what...

c0vfefe 7y ago

It keeps people happy who might otherwise leave.