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There is at least this from Zuckerberg's announcement : "Calibra will be regulated like other payment service providers. Any information you share with Calibra

There is at least this from Zuckerberg's announcement : "Calibra will be regulated like other payment service providers. Any information you share with Calibra will be kept separate from information you share on Facebook."

asdkhadsj 7y ago
I wonder if "kept separate from" is meaningfully differently than "unable to be linked to". Ie, if Facebook can figure out how to link their data to your LibraCoin data then this statement is moot. Keeping data separate is not interesting wording by itself, imo.
jerf 7y ago
I suspect they are using different definitions of "information", "share", "separate", "Calibra", and "Facebook" than a naive person reading that sentence might expect. I don't mean that as pure snark; I'm dead serious. The legal definition of all those things, the definitions they can get away with using, and the definitions that a normal person would expect from reading that sentence are probably three very different things. Plus, along with general lack of confidence in Facebook keeping its mitts off of juicy data given their checkered history, I have even less confidence that the promised wall will be there going forward, and that there won't be an excited, breathless announcement in a year or two about how ecstatic they are to bring you awesome new services powered by the data they're going to get from tearing down that wall and isn't it all just so wonderful.
- JumpCrisscross 7y ago
  > they are using different definitions This is a PR statement. Facebook and Zuckerberg have straight up lied about this sort of thing before [1]. No need for complexity (they’re weaselling their words) when telling it simply (they’re lying again) will do. [1] https://www.fastcompany.com/4017734/whatsapp-breaks-promise-will-now-share-user-data-with-facebook https://www.fastcompany.com/4017734/whatsapp-breaks-promise-...
  - la_barba 7y ago
    BTW, I read your link and it was the founder of WhatsApp that 'promised' it. While I wouldn't be surprised if FB made the promise and then broke it, that doesn't seem to be what happened here.
    - obmelvin 7y ago
      Call him naive but he seemed to actually believe that to be the case. Mark's desire to renege on that promise is one of the main reasons he left FB.
      - la_barba 7y ago
        Well, if I sold a chat application that was loosing hundreds of millions of dollars, for $19 billion dollars to FB.. I'd be wondering how they're ever going to recover the money. Its easy to paint one side as the villain in this.
- dannyw 7y ago
  > information: Personal information only, such as your full name. Does not include an ID that facebook is able to link. Does not include your transactional "records", which are not information. > kept separate: Means it is stored a separate database, however it can be connected together. > Facebook: Refers to "Facebook Inc", but not "Instagram LLC". Instagram is authorized to share information with Facebook.
- stcredzero 7y ago
  The legal definition of all those things, the definitions they can get away with using, and the definitions that a normal person would expect from reading that sentence are probably three very different things. This has applied to a bunch of things for years now. Have you flown on an airline? You might well have flown on an airplane operated by a different company, with that airline's branding. Who makes your car and your electronics? The details of all that have been a complex maze since the 1980's. Who makes your toothpaste, and where are all the ingredients really from? (Note, this comment is written mainly with 3rd party readers in mind.)
- hinkley 7y ago
  I know at some point I heard of a group that wasn't selling data about particular users but they were selling aggregated data about the users. In typical fashion they had convinced themselves that they were the good guys. I'd be shocked if Facebook weren't planning the same thing.
snarf21 7y ago
Typical comments from them. It also says they will comply with all AML and KYC requirements and will work directly with governments as required. In other words, to get this crypto you must give them your government ID. The fact that the complete Calibra profile of you will be in a different database than your complete FB profile is meaningless.
ARandomerDude 7y ago
Facebook having 2 operational databases instead of 1 still fails to inspire confidence.
herrvogel- 7y ago
This statement does not include ads. Which is the real use case in my opinion. Facebook will link shown ads to purchases made with Calibra. This will allow them to target users even more and generate more revenue per ad.
- lifty 7y ago
  They do mention in the customer commitment document that they will not use data from Calibra to improved as targeting on the Facebook platform.
  - obmelvin 7y ago
    Just like they weren't going to link whatsapp and Facebook data... They will find a way to do it and tell the masses they aren't
ionised 7y ago
He said data on WhatsApp would be kept separate too. He lied. Again and again and again.
tommoor 7y ago
separate doesn't mean they can't be linked.
espadrine 7y ago
Facebook’s promises are as trustworthy as their record of not breaking them. They promised not linking accounts between WhatsApp and Facebook, inevitably broke it, and faced triple-digit millions in fines, without a sweat: https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/18/15657158/facebook-whatsapp-european-commission-fine-data-sharing https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/18/15657158/facebook-whatsap...
eddd 7y ago
Sure it will be kept separate. In separate sql-like tables with a key to join on.
- rdiddly 7y ago
  Yup and Facebook will have both tables. The companies that paid in will only get the one table.
Mikulas0 7y ago
...and then SQL joined together for analysis.

asdkhadsj 7y ago

I wonder if "kept separate from" is meaningfully differently than "unable to be linked to". Ie, if Facebook can figure out how to link their data to your LibraCoin data then this statement is moot. Keeping data separate is not interesting wording by itself, imo.

jerf 7y ago

I suspect they are using different definitions of "information", "share", "separate", "Calibra", and "Facebook" than a naive person reading that sentence might expect. I don't mean that as pure snark; I'm dead serious. The legal definition of all those things, the definitions they can get away with using, and the definitions that a normal person would expect from reading that sentence are probably three very different things. Plus, along with general lack of confidence in Facebook keeping its mitts off of juicy data given their checkered history, I have even less confidence that the promised wall will be there going forward, and that there won't be an excited, breathless announcement in a year or two about how ecstatic they are to bring you awesome new services powered by the data they're going to get from tearing down that wall and isn't it all just so wonderful.

JumpCrisscross 7y ago
> they are using different definitions This is a PR statement. Facebook and Zuckerberg have straight up lied about this sort of thing before [1]. No need for complexity (they’re weaselling their words) when telling it simply (they’re lying again) will do. [1] https://www.fastcompany.com/4017734/whatsapp-breaks-promise-will-now-share-user-data-with-facebook https://www.fastcompany.com/4017734/whatsapp-breaks-promise-...
- la_barba 7y ago
  BTW, I read your link and it was the founder of WhatsApp that 'promised' it. While I wouldn't be surprised if FB made the promise and then broke it, that doesn't seem to be what happened here.
  - obmelvin 7y ago
    Call him naive but he seemed to actually believe that to be the case. Mark's desire to renege on that promise is one of the main reasons he left FB.
    - la_barba 7y ago
      Well, if I sold a chat application that was loosing hundreds of millions of dollars, for $19 billion dollars to FB.. I'd be wondering how they're ever going to recover the money. Its easy to paint one side as the villain in this.
dannyw 7y ago
> information: Personal information only, such as your full name. Does not include an ID that facebook is able to link. Does not include your transactional "records", which are not information. > kept separate: Means it is stored a separate database, however it can be connected together. > Facebook: Refers to "Facebook Inc", but not "Instagram LLC". Instagram is authorized to share information with Facebook.
stcredzero 7y ago
The legal definition of all those things, the definitions they can get away with using, and the definitions that a normal person would expect from reading that sentence are probably three very different things. This has applied to a bunch of things for years now. Have you flown on an airline? You might well have flown on an airplane operated by a different company, with that airline's branding. Who makes your car and your electronics? The details of all that have been a complex maze since the 1980's. Who makes your toothpaste, and where are all the ingredients really from? (Note, this comment is written mainly with 3rd party readers in mind.)
hinkley 7y ago
I know at some point I heard of a group that wasn't selling data about particular users but they were selling aggregated data about the users. In typical fashion they had convinced themselves that they were the good guys. I'd be shocked if Facebook weren't planning the same thing.

snarf21 7y ago

Typical comments from them. It also says they will comply with all AML and KYC requirements and will work directly with governments as required. In other words, to get this crypto you must give them your government ID. The fact that the complete Calibra profile of you will be in a different database than your complete FB profile is meaningless.

ARandomerDude 7y ago

Facebook having 2 operational databases instead of 1 still fails to inspire confidence.

herrvogel- 7y ago

This statement does not include ads. Which is the real use case in my opinion. Facebook will link shown ads to purchases made with Calibra. This will allow them to target users even more and generate more revenue per ad.

lifty 7y ago
They do mention in the customer commitment document that they will not use data from Calibra to improved as targeting on the Facebook platform.
- obmelvin 7y ago
  Just like they weren't going to link whatsapp and Facebook data... They will find a way to do it and tell the masses they aren't

ionised 7y ago

He said data on WhatsApp would be kept separate too. He lied. Again and again and again.

tommoor 7y ago

separate doesn't mean they can't be linked.

espadrine 7y ago

Facebook’s promises are as trustworthy as their record of not breaking them. They promised not linking accounts between WhatsApp and Facebook, inevitably broke it, and faced triple-digit millions in fines, without a sweat: https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/18/15657158/facebook-whatsapp-european-commission-fine-data-sharing https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/18/15657158/facebook-whatsap...

eddd 7y ago

Sure it will be kept separate. In separate sql-like tables with a key to join on.

rdiddly 7y ago
Yup and Facebook will have both tables. The companies that paid in will only get the one table.

Mikulas0 7y ago

...and then SQL joined together for analysis.