3 ms·

Toyota's anti-EV ads aren't just deceptive, they also push science illiteracy

11 points by evo_9 7y ago

madengr 7y ago
Why is Toyota so far behind the other manufacturers, despite having a initial lead in hybrids? Were they just betting that EVs would flop? Even Honda, which is a hold-out, has the Clarity which is a nice car (we have a Clarity and Leaf).
- Danieru 7y ago
  Toyota, and several other manufacturers, have focused on hydrogen. It seemed as the perfect solution by offerings similar car cost and ranges. Prior to Tesla making even high end electric cars was theoretical. Even now battery powered cars do not have an obvious path to hitting 15k USD and 600km range. The weight to battery ratio is improving bit by bit, but not as fast as cost is improving. Personaly the chance to charge at home means I would be willing to trade off range and cost for the lower running cost.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - xbmcuser 7y ago
    Looking at driving patterns 600km range is required for a very small subset of cars. Most people drive to work in the morning park their cars for 7-8 hours then drive home or where ever. Cities should be providing car chargers at places where people park their cars at work which is the same period of large solar production and commercially in some cities is selling at zero or negative. At home night charging should be actually discouraged in favor of day time at work charging.
dingaling 7y ago
> Using the word “electric” in the description of a vehicle that doesn’t have a plug is deceptive. Not really, we've had diesel-electric railway locomotives for over a century and no-one confuses them with electric locos.
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
This behavior isn't surprising, Toyota has been coasting on consumer perception they built up in the '90s and early '00s for a long time now. Since consumer perception tends to lag reality by a decade or so and the car industry is more of a boogeyman than a subject of interest to most of HN it's not surprising that this behavior is unexpected to a good chunk of HN.
Someone1234 7y ago
This is not a good article. - It does not contain the actual ad (only quotes: “self-charging” “hybrid electric Corolla”). Unless the article it links contains the ad, in which case why is this a duplicate of that article? - Most of it is just attacking hybrids and talking about why EV is superior (which isn't relevant to Toyota's ad, the supposed topic of the article). Spending half the article reminding us that a gas hybrid electric uses gas isn't constructive/informative/helpful. - Continues this trend of using the Prius's sales figures to show EV's superiority. While ignoring that Toyota themselves expanded hybrids to well beyond the Prius product line: Hybrid Rav4, Hybrid Highlander, Hybrid Corolla, Hybrid Camry, Hybrid Avalon, Hybrid Mirai. None of which are a "Prius." It also ignores that the car industry has also adopted hybrid technology, providing much greater competition in the space (and the shift from small vehicles like the Prius to SUVs, which are also now available as hybrids, even up to Hybrid Minivans and soon Trucks). - Toyota has been pushing hybrid vehicles longer and further than anyone else. These vehicles have had a positive environmental impact (higher MpG, lower emissions, etc). This results in lower gas consumption. "electrek" has always been an unapologetic Tesla advertising/propaganda wing. I don't know why people post it here. The actual quality of writing, research, and journalistic integrity remains extremely low.
- celerrimus 7y ago
  True. This article is pure BS. Even in US where only 18% of electric energy is renewable (plus some from nuclear energy), emissions results from EV are not so impressive. In average country, new generation of hybrid cars from Toyota may be much more effective in terms of CO2 and other harmful emissions, compared to pure electric vehicles. And all inconveniences of EVs, like lack of charging stations, limited range, long charging time, are basically gone. Sure, future will be electric, but not with current mix of power generation and state of energy storage.
RickJWagner 7y ago
Given that Toyota produces the Prius (and has for many years) I think the criticism of Toyota is a bit over the top.

11 points by evo_9 7y ago

Why is Toyota so far behind the other manufacturers, despite having a initial lead in hybrids? Were they just betting that EVs would flop? Even Honda, which is a hold-out, has the Clarity which is a nice car (we have a Clarity and Leaf).

Danieru 7y ago
Toyota, and several other manufacturers, have focused on hydrogen. It seemed as the perfect solution by offerings similar car cost and ranges. Prior to Tesla making even high end electric cars was theoretical. Even now battery powered cars do not have an obvious path to hitting 15k USD and 600km range. The weight to battery ratio is improving bit by bit, but not as fast as cost is improving. Personaly the chance to charge at home means I would be willing to trade off range and cost for the lower running cost.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- xbmcuser 7y ago
  Looking at driving patterns 600km range is required for a very small subset of cars. Most people drive to work in the morning park their cars for 7-8 hours then drive home or where ever. Cities should be providing car chargers at places where people park their cars at work which is the same period of large solar production and commercially in some cities is selling at zero or negative. At home night charging should be actually discouraged in favor of day time at work charging.

dingaling 7y ago

> Using the word “electric” in the description of a vehicle that doesn’t have a plug is deceptive. Not really, we've had diesel-electric railway locomotives for over a century and no-one confuses them with electric locos.

dsfyu404ed 7y ago

This behavior isn't surprising, Toyota has been coasting on consumer perception they built up in the '90s and early '00s for a long time now. Since consumer perception tends to lag reality by a decade or so and the car industry is more of a boogeyman than a subject of interest to most of HN it's not surprising that this behavior is unexpected to a good chunk of HN.

Someone1234 7y ago

This is not a good article. - It does not contain the actual ad (only quotes: “self-charging” “hybrid electric Corolla”). Unless the article it links contains the ad, in which case why is this a duplicate of that article? - Most of it is just attacking hybrids and talking about why EV is superior (which isn't relevant to Toyota's ad, the supposed topic of the article). Spending half the article reminding us that a gas hybrid electric uses gas isn't constructive/informative/helpful. - Continues this trend of using the Prius's sales figures to show EV's superiority. While ignoring that Toyota themselves expanded hybrids to well beyond the Prius product line: Hybrid Rav4, Hybrid Highlander, Hybrid Corolla, Hybrid Camry, Hybrid Avalon, Hybrid Mirai. None of which are a "Prius." It also ignores that the car industry has also adopted hybrid technology, providing much greater competition in the space (and the shift from small vehicles like the Prius to SUVs, which are also now available as hybrids, even up to Hybrid Minivans and soon Trucks). - Toyota has been pushing hybrid vehicles longer and further than anyone else. These vehicles have had a positive environmental impact (higher MpG, lower emissions, etc). This results in lower gas consumption. "electrek" has always been an unapologetic Tesla advertising/propaganda wing. I don't know why people post it here. The actual quality of writing, research, and journalistic integrity remains extremely low.

celerrimus 7y ago
True. This article is pure BS. Even in US where only 18% of electric energy is renewable (plus some from nuclear energy), emissions results from EV are not so impressive. In average country, new generation of hybrid cars from Toyota may be much more effective in terms of CO2 and other harmful emissions, compared to pure electric vehicles. And all inconveniences of EVs, like lack of charging stations, limited range, long charging time, are basically gone. Sure, future will be electric, but not with current mix of power generation and state of energy storage.

RickJWagner 7y ago

Given that Toyota produces the Prius (and has for many years) I think the criticism of Toyota is a bit over the top.