4 ms·

Why are you attributing water deficit with climate change? Increasing atmospheric water vapor leads to larger storms, floods, and overabundance of ground water.

Why are you attributing water deficit with climate change? Increasing atmospheric water vapor leads to larger storms, floods, and overabundance of ground water. India's problem is overconsumption and population excess. Until India is able to reduce their population by 50% or more, their water shortages will continue to worsen. A sizeable decrease in their population will also reduce their power consumption needs, so they'll be able to close their coal power plants instead of opening dozens more.

criley2 7y ago
It's more complicated than that. Climate change doesn't lead to global increased atmospheric water vapor and the water cycle is very complicated on a global scale. Climate change leads to floods and storms... and droughts and wildfires. Some areas could see greatly increase groundwater recharge while others will see greatly reduced recharge. Even if the global net effect were to increase water, there would still be extreme examples of local droughts causing extreme water stress. In the U.S. for example climate change is leading to decreased rainfall meaning less runoff and less groundwater recharge. The southeast of the US is going to have some very serious water issues for the next generation, albeit not as soon as India.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  In the U.S. for example climate change is leading to decreased rainfall meaning less runoff and less groundwater recharge. Where are you getting this? It certainly doesn't agree with figures published by the government. [0] The aquifers that are dropping are dropping because of massive well pumping. The wildfires are because we've stockpiled understory fuel while building homes in fire-prone forests. Overstating the case for global warming will convince some people, but others will only grow more skeptical. [0] https://www.drought.gov/drought/data-maps-tools/current-conditions https://www.drought.gov/drought/data-maps-tools/current-cond...
  - criley2 7y ago
    https://nca2014.globalchange.gov/highlights/report-findings/water-supply https://nca2014.globalchange.gov/highlights/report-findings/... >Surface and groundwater supplies in some regions are already stressed by increasing demand as well as declining runoff and groundwater recharge. In some regions, particularly the southern U.S. and the Caribbean and Pacific islands, climate change is increasing the likelihood of water shortages and competition for water. Water quality is diminishing in many areas, particularly due to increasing sediment and contaminant concentrations after heavy downpours. I find that people's skepticism regarding climate change has almost nothing to do with data and evidence and nearly everything to do with their personal politics, to the extent that I draw a causative link between right-leaning politics and "climate skepticism".
    - jessaustin 7y ago
      You made a specific claim about rainfall. That claim contradicted my experience over the last several years. I searched for "USA drought", and a very simple government site confirmed there is no drought underway in USA. (EDIT: there certainly will be a drought in future, just as there will be floods and hurricanes and comfortable sunny days with light breezes.) I'm not sure what this most recent link is supposed to prove, but I'm not going to wade through it. I only consider specifics when it comes to weather/climate.
      - criley2 7y ago
        Let me get this straight, you asked me to source my claim that climate change will affect america, so I use an official government report titled "National Climate Assessment" which details the effects on America, and you're rejecting this canonical source? Your reply is "I'm not reading this, I did a fast google search instead?" Oof owie, my intellectualism. I shouldn't have to spoon feed you after I gave you an extremely high quality source. But whatever: "Climate changes pose challenges for an already parched region that is expected to get hotter and, in its southern half, significantly drier. Increased heat and changes to rain and snowpack will send ripple effects throughout the region’s critical agriculture sector, affecting the lives and economies of 56 million people – a population that is expected to increase 68% by 2050, to 94 million. Severe and sustained drought will stress water sources, already over-utilized in many areas, forcing increasing competition among farmers, energy producers, urban dwellers, and plant and animal life for the region’s most precious resource." >Theobald, D. M., W. R. Travis, M. A. Drummond, and E. S. Gordon, 2013: Ch. 3: The Changing Southwest. Assessment of Climate Change in the Southwest United States: A Report Prepared for the National Climate Assessment, G. Garfin, A. Jardine, R. Merideth, M. Black, and S. LeRoy, Eds., Island Press, 37-55 http://swccar.org/sites/all/themes/files/SW-NCA-color-FINALweb.pdf http://swccar.org/sites/all/themes/files/SW-NCA-color-FINALw...
  - Retra 7y ago
    If it rains less, you dig more wells. Why do you think drought and pumping are independent?
    - jessaustin 7y ago
      They've been pumping the Ogallala since the 1940s. Western Kansas and Nebraska are not naturally green areas. That they don't have enough water for the type of agriculture they practice is not the sign of a drought.
- treis 7y ago
  > Climate change doesn't lead to global increased atmospheric water vapor and the water cycle is very complicated on a global scale. It also doesn't lead to groundwater depletion and the absence of well water. That's more or less independent of climate change. Well water is a semi-renewable resource. In other words, there's only a certain fraction of rain that will filter down to where the wells are pulling it from. If wells pull more than that the water table gradually drops until the wells run dry. That's what is happening in India (and in a lot of other places.). They've drilled too many wells and depleted the ground water. Fixing climate change isn't going to help with that problem.
mc32 7y ago
Obviously total population contributes to depletion; increased per capita use exacerbates that, but change in weather patterns due to changes in climate adds uncertainty and exacerbates floods and droughts, neither of which is helpful in combating water shortages (floods don’t have time to percolate back into aquifers).
wongarsu 7y ago
Assuming equal total rainfall, larger storms reduce the total usable water. Storm water mostly just runs away and flows into the ocean without doing anything useful. Of course in reality it's much more complicated since rainfall doesn't stay constant, and the changes in wind patterns and ocean currents have hard to predict consequences. But I think it's safe to say that rainfall will change, and at least for some regions it will make things worse.
jussij 7y ago
From the article: In India, a 22 per cent deficit has been recorded in pre-monsoon showers in the months of March, April and May — the second lowest in the past 65 years — and with monsoons delayed by a fortnight or so, daily temperatures have been sizzling. In other words the once reliable monsoons are no longer that reliable. From what I have read one of the reasons for this is the warming of the Indian Ocean, with that warming then resulting in changes to the Indian Ocean Dipole (IOD). That dipole has a big influence on climate, not only in India but across the whole region and as it changes so does the climate.
empath75 7y ago
A lot of water is stored in glaciers and mountains when it is cold and released in the spring and summer. If that water is no longer stored in the mountains, rivers will start to dry up in the summer.
mmargerum 7y ago
Looks like all the climatologists in here downvoted you.
signa11 7y ago
> Until India is able to reduce their population by 50% or more, their water shortages will continue to worsen. you seem to be getting into full blown thanos mode here, probably you have seen this work somewhere before? can you please share?
- theflyinghorse 7y ago
  I think he is onto something. Unbound population growth combined with rapidly increasing standards of living can only lead to larger carbon foot print by the nation as well as larger water consumption. I think controlling population to some degree (I don't know what that degree is) would be enormously beneficial to the environment.
  - jogjayr 7y ago
    > Unbound population growth India's fertility rate is at or below the global average and has been falling for decades. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependencies_by_total_fertility_rate#Country_ranking_by_verified_TFR_and_estimate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d...
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - jordanbeiber 7y ago
    It’s not unbound: https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/06/1040621 https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/06/1040621 The more reasonable standard of living, healthcare and food more people get access to, the faster we’ll reach a balance. If only there was a name for it...

criley2 7y ago

It's more complicated than that. Climate change doesn't lead to global increased atmospheric water vapor and the water cycle is very complicated on a global scale. Climate change leads to floods and storms... and droughts and wildfires. Some areas could see greatly increase groundwater recharge while others will see greatly reduced recharge. Even if the global net effect were to increase water, there would still be extreme examples of local droughts causing extreme water stress. In the U.S. for example climate change is leading to decreased rainfall meaning less runoff and less groundwater recharge. The southeast of the US is going to have some very serious water issues for the next generation, albeit not as soon as India.

jessaustin 7y ago
In the U.S. for example climate change is leading to decreased rainfall meaning less runoff and less groundwater recharge. Where are you getting this? It certainly doesn't agree with figures published by the government. [0] The aquifers that are dropping are dropping because of massive well pumping. The wildfires are because we've stockpiled understory fuel while building homes in fire-prone forests. Overstating the case for global warming will convince some people, but others will only grow more skeptical. [0] https://www.drought.gov/drought/data-maps-tools/current-conditions https://www.drought.gov/drought/data-maps-tools/current-cond...
- criley2 7y ago
  https://nca2014.globalchange.gov/highlights/report-findings/water-supply https://nca2014.globalchange.gov/highlights/report-findings/... >Surface and groundwater supplies in some regions are already stressed by increasing demand as well as declining runoff and groundwater recharge. In some regions, particularly the southern U.S. and the Caribbean and Pacific islands, climate change is increasing the likelihood of water shortages and competition for water. Water quality is diminishing in many areas, particularly due to increasing sediment and contaminant concentrations after heavy downpours. I find that people's skepticism regarding climate change has almost nothing to do with data and evidence and nearly everything to do with their personal politics, to the extent that I draw a causative link between right-leaning politics and "climate skepticism".
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    You made a specific claim about rainfall. That claim contradicted my experience over the last several years. I searched for "USA drought", and a very simple government site confirmed there is no drought underway in USA. (EDIT: there certainly will be a drought in future, just as there will be floods and hurricanes and comfortable sunny days with light breezes.) I'm not sure what this most recent link is supposed to prove, but I'm not going to wade through it. I only consider specifics when it comes to weather/climate.
    - criley2 7y ago
      Let me get this straight, you asked me to source my claim that climate change will affect america, so I use an official government report titled "National Climate Assessment" which details the effects on America, and you're rejecting this canonical source? Your reply is "I'm not reading this, I did a fast google search instead?" Oof owie, my intellectualism. I shouldn't have to spoon feed you after I gave you an extremely high quality source. But whatever: "Climate changes pose challenges for an already parched region that is expected to get hotter and, in its southern half, significantly drier. Increased heat and changes to rain and snowpack will send ripple effects throughout the region’s critical agriculture sector, affecting the lives and economies of 56 million people – a population that is expected to increase 68% by 2050, to 94 million. Severe and sustained drought will stress water sources, already over-utilized in many areas, forcing increasing competition among farmers, energy producers, urban dwellers, and plant and animal life for the region’s most precious resource." >Theobald, D. M., W. R. Travis, M. A. Drummond, and E. S. Gordon, 2013: Ch. 3: The Changing Southwest. Assessment of Climate Change in the Southwest United States: A Report Prepared for the National Climate Assessment, G. Garfin, A. Jardine, R. Merideth, M. Black, and S. LeRoy, Eds., Island Press, 37-55 http://swccar.org/sites/all/themes/files/SW-NCA-color-FINALweb.pdf http://swccar.org/sites/all/themes/files/SW-NCA-color-FINALw...
- Retra 7y ago
  If it rains less, you dig more wells. Why do you think drought and pumping are independent?
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    They've been pumping the Ogallala since the 1940s. Western Kansas and Nebraska are not naturally green areas. That they don't have enough water for the type of agriculture they practice is not the sign of a drought.
treis 7y ago
> Climate change doesn't lead to global increased atmospheric water vapor and the water cycle is very complicated on a global scale. It also doesn't lead to groundwater depletion and the absence of well water. That's more or less independent of climate change. Well water is a semi-renewable resource. In other words, there's only a certain fraction of rain that will filter down to where the wells are pulling it from. If wells pull more than that the water table gradually drops until the wells run dry. That's what is happening in India (and in a lot of other places.). They've drilled too many wells and depleted the ground water. Fixing climate change isn't going to help with that problem.

mc32 7y ago

Obviously total population contributes to depletion; increased per capita use exacerbates that, but change in weather patterns due to changes in climate adds uncertainty and exacerbates floods and droughts, neither of which is helpful in combating water shortages (floods don’t have time to percolate back into aquifers).

wongarsu 7y ago

Assuming equal total rainfall, larger storms reduce the total usable water. Storm water mostly just runs away and flows into the ocean without doing anything useful. Of course in reality it's much more complicated since rainfall doesn't stay constant, and the changes in wind patterns and ocean currents have hard to predict consequences. But I think it's safe to say that rainfall will change, and at least for some regions it will make things worse.

jussij 7y ago

From the article: In India, a 22 per cent deficit has been recorded in pre-monsoon showers in the months of March, April and May — the second lowest in the past 65 years — and with monsoons delayed by a fortnight or so, daily temperatures have been sizzling. In other words the once reliable monsoons are no longer that reliable. From what I have read one of the reasons for this is the warming of the Indian Ocean, with that warming then resulting in changes to the Indian Ocean Dipole (IOD). That dipole has a big influence on climate, not only in India but across the whole region and as it changes so does the climate.

empath75 7y ago

A lot of water is stored in glaciers and mountains when it is cold and released in the spring and summer. If that water is no longer stored in the mountains, rivers will start to dry up in the summer.

mmargerum 7y ago

Looks like all the climatologists in here downvoted you.

signa11 7y ago

> Until India is able to reduce their population by 50% or more, their water shortages will continue to worsen. you seem to be getting into full blown thanos mode here, probably you have seen this work somewhere before? can you please share?

theflyinghorse 7y ago
I think he is onto something. Unbound population growth combined with rapidly increasing standards of living can only lead to larger carbon foot print by the nation as well as larger water consumption. I think controlling population to some degree (I don't know what that degree is) would be enormously beneficial to the environment.
- jogjayr 7y ago
  > Unbound population growth India's fertility rate is at or below the global average and has been falling for decades. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependencies_by_total_fertility_rate#Country_ranking_by_verified_TFR_and_estimate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- jordanbeiber 7y ago
  It’s not unbound: https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/06/1040621 https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/06/1040621 The more reasonable standard of living, healthcare and food more people get access to, the faster we’ll reach a balance. If only there was a name for it...