2 ms·

A cruise ship emits as much pollution as 1,000,000 cars per day[1]. Name calling people while turning a blind eye that most pollution is shipping, air traffic a

A cruise ship emits as much pollution as 1,000,000 cars per day[1]. Name calling people while turning a blind eye that most pollution is shipping, air traffic and heavy manufacturing which profits by not having to pay for its own externalities, is totally mean-spirited and unhelpful. Would you have a problem if driving a sports car for fun included a mandatory carbon-sink tax that covered the car's pollution - if it became more expensive to make, buy, and run a car, but still permitted? [1]https://www.euractiv.com/section/air-pollution/news/daily-emissions-of-cruise-ships-same-as-one-million-cars/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/air-pollution/news/daily-em...

lm28469 7y ago
> Would you have a problem if driving a sports car for fun included a mandatory carbon-sink tax that covered the car's pollution - if it became more expensive to make, buy, and run a car, but still permitted? As I understand it's already the case in most first world countries. The problem is that people have more than enough money to pay a few couple hundred dollars more per year. Money isn't enough of an incentive. Paying more tax on ICE vehicles (and extra for sport cars) to make it "carbon neutral" doesn't remove all the gases from city centers and won't prevent these gases to end up in our lungs. And yeah you're right, ships are way higher in the list than sport cars, but it's something you can mostly opt out of, just like sport cars.
- jodrellblank 7y ago
  it's something you can mostly opt out of, just like sport cars. Yes, but how far do you take the rhetoric of name-calling people "entitled" down the slippery slope? Entitled for wanting to drive a sports car? Entitled for wanting to eat imported food? Entitled for wanting to wear imported clothes? Entitled for wanting to wear clean, patterned, well-fitting new clothes? Entitled for wanting to eat meat? Entitled for wanting to live in a space more than one room? Entitled for wanting water and electricity on-tap? Entitled for wanting to see the sun instead of an underground one-room home? Entitled for wanting to consume more than minimal-calorie quantity of nutrient gruel and move their feet outside the prescribed shoulder-width standing allocation? Adjusting to make carbon-neutral or carbon-negative choices is way better than name-calling trying to shame people for wanting to live their lives, in the environment they were born into, doing the things they learn from people around them. The problem is that people have more than enough money to pay a few couple hundred dollars more per year. .. good? That's not a problem? Paying more tax on ICE vehicles (and extra for sport cars) to make it "carbon neutral" doesn't remove all the gases from city centers and won't prevent these gases to end up in our lungs. That is a concern, and it is a concern of mine, but it's a goal-shift from talking about ICE and electric vehicles for climate change reasons.
  - lm28469 7y ago
    > Yes, but how far do you take the rhetoric of name-calling people "entitled" down the slippery slope? As far as it takes to make humans live in a sustainable way. If we value unnecessary comfort and people's feelings over Life we'll simply never get out of this. We either all swallow our pride and take responsability, or we do as half of the comments here, blame China/big corps/whatever as an excuse. Talk to your great grand parents and grand parents, ask them how life was back then, humanity is degenerating in am uncontrollable thing that's collapsing under its own weight. > for wanting to live their lives, in the environment they were born into, doing the things they learn from people around them. That's a non argument as you can defend _any_ human behaviors with it. We have to be the change, not lament on the human condition. > it is because we are in love with our vices; we uphold them and prefer to make excuses for them rather than shake them off. We mortals have been endowed with sufficient strength by nature, if only we use this strength, if only we concentrate our powers and rouse them all to help us or at least not to hinder us. The reason is unwillingness, the excuse, inability.

lm28469 7y ago

> Would you have a problem if driving a sports car for fun included a mandatory carbon-sink tax that covered the car's pollution - if it became more expensive to make, buy, and run a car, but still permitted? As I understand it's already the case in most first world countries. The problem is that people have more than enough money to pay a few couple hundred dollars more per year. Money isn't enough of an incentive. Paying more tax on ICE vehicles (and extra for sport cars) to make it "carbon neutral" doesn't remove all the gases from city centers and won't prevent these gases to end up in our lungs. And yeah you're right, ships are way higher in the list than sport cars, but it's something you can mostly opt out of, just like sport cars.

jodrellblank 7y ago
it's something you can mostly opt out of, just like sport cars. Yes, but how far do you take the rhetoric of name-calling people "entitled" down the slippery slope? Entitled for wanting to drive a sports car? Entitled for wanting to eat imported food? Entitled for wanting to wear imported clothes? Entitled for wanting to wear clean, patterned, well-fitting new clothes? Entitled for wanting to eat meat? Entitled for wanting to live in a space more than one room? Entitled for wanting water and electricity on-tap? Entitled for wanting to see the sun instead of an underground one-room home? Entitled for wanting to consume more than minimal-calorie quantity of nutrient gruel and move their feet outside the prescribed shoulder-width standing allocation? Adjusting to make carbon-neutral or carbon-negative choices is way better than name-calling trying to shame people for wanting to live their lives, in the environment they were born into, doing the things they learn from people around them. The problem is that people have more than enough money to pay a few couple hundred dollars more per year. .. good? That's not a problem? Paying more tax on ICE vehicles (and extra for sport cars) to make it "carbon neutral" doesn't remove all the gases from city centers and won't prevent these gases to end up in our lungs. That is a concern, and it is a concern of mine, but it's a goal-shift from talking about ICE and electric vehicles for climate change reasons.
- lm28469 7y ago
  > Yes, but how far do you take the rhetoric of name-calling people "entitled" down the slippery slope? As far as it takes to make humans live in a sustainable way. If we value unnecessary comfort and people's feelings over Life we'll simply never get out of this. We either all swallow our pride and take responsability, or we do as half of the comments here, blame China/big corps/whatever as an excuse. Talk to your great grand parents and grand parents, ask them how life was back then, humanity is degenerating in am uncontrollable thing that's collapsing under its own weight. > for wanting to live their lives, in the environment they were born into, doing the things they learn from people around them. That's a non argument as you can defend _any_ human behaviors with it. We have to be the change, not lament on the human condition. > it is because we are in love with our vices; we uphold them and prefer to make excuses for them rather than shake them off. We mortals have been endowed with sufficient strength by nature, if only we use this strength, if only we concentrate our powers and rouse them all to help us or at least not to hinder us. The reason is unwillingness, the excuse, inability.