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Also cash is the only thing that works if your system gets unfair in some way. It's the only thing that allows a hobo to stay in touch with society, paying in a

Also cash is the only thing that works if your system gets unfair in some way. It's the only thing that allows a hobo to stay in touch with society, paying in a gay bar without trace, setup a political group that the state would deem immoral, experiment with banned drugs, buy censored books and journals, etc If you like democracy, you need a small, but resiliant grey zone. You need to allow a few people to take the risk of doing what's condamned. It's not sexy, but it's necessary. Do not outlaw cash.

ur-whale 7y ago
>Do not outlaw cash As much as I agree with you, cash is unfortunately already well on its way out: in many EU countries (Italy, France), cash transactions above 1.5k euros are illegal. For example, buying a car cash is illegal. The US won't be far behind, imho. For small transactions (eg buying a loaf of bread), something flipped in small business owners minds: they used to hate plastic for small stuff, and I can increasingly feel that today, it's the exact opposite: people let out a small sigh of annoyance when they see you pull out your coins. This is a freedom almost as important as free speech that's slowly and silently being choked to death by big govt and not a single so-called freedom fighter out there, be they on the left or on the right of the political spectrum is picking up on the significance of the issue.
- robin_reala 7y ago
  I’m not disagreeing, but have you got a reference for your first paragraph?
  - Flashtoo 7y ago
    https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/en/consumer-topics/financial-services-insurance/banking/means-of-payment/cash-payment-limitations/ https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/en/consumer-topics/finan...
- mtw 7y ago
  In Germany, cash is still king
- aiCeivi9 7y ago
  > something flipped in small business owners minds EU intercharge cap (The Regulation on Interchange Fees for Card-based payment transactions) entered into force in June 2015 [0] - it was probably that. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interchange_fee#European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interchange_fee#European_Union
- johnnycab 7y ago
  >they used to hate plastic for small stuff, and I can increasingly feel that today, it's the exact opposite: people let out a small sigh of annoyance when they see you pull out your coins If we are to preserve and force the continual issuance of physical currency, this is one of those of annoyances, which needs to be tolerated. In a decade's time, cash as a concept will be even more eroded and probably well on it's way to being gradually phased out of acceptance/existence. In another decade or more, it will become quaint and start to evoke feelings of nostalgia, perhaps even undergoing a retro revival by getting used as an underground currency. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48133093 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48133093
bufferoverflow 7y ago
No, it's not the only way anymore. Now we have decentralized crypto currencies, and some of them are even designed for privacy, like Monero or ZCash.
- darkcha0s 7y ago
  That doesn't solve any of the aforementioned problems.
  - bufferoverflow 7y ago
    It solves all the problems that the comment I replied to listed.
    - sametmax 7y ago
      No. A hobo will not use a crypto coin. A crypto coin will not work during a natural disaster. It will not let you live out of the grid. A crypto currency is a great complement to cash, not a replacement.
      - bufferoverflow 7y ago
        > A hobo will not use a crypto coin. Reality would like a word with you. https://qolczpnfu7-flywheel.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Bitcoin-Homeless-Man.jpg https://qolczpnfu7-flywheel.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/upload... https://i.pinimg.com/736x/20/1b/11/201b111e61b9f8266cca274d68f78d05.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/736x/20/1b/11/201b111e61b9f8266cca274d6... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2018/08/08/TELEMMGLPICT000171230216_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqNJjoeBT78QIaYdkJdEY4CnGTJFJS74MYhNY6w3GNbO8.jpeg?imwidth=450 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2018/08/08/TELE... https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a4/4b/9c/a44b9c2d5f4a671f5d23f43e96c79b3d.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a4/4b/9c/a44b9c2d5f4a671f5d23... https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article11700457.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200/Beggars-now-accepting-mobile-payments-because-we-dont-carry-loose-change-anymore.jpg https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article11700457.ece/AL...

ur-whale 7y ago

>Do not outlaw cash As much as I agree with you, cash is unfortunately already well on its way out: in many EU countries (Italy, France), cash transactions above 1.5k euros are illegal. For example, buying a car cash is illegal. The US won't be far behind, imho. For small transactions (eg buying a loaf of bread), something flipped in small business owners minds: they used to hate plastic for small stuff, and I can increasingly feel that today, it's the exact opposite: people let out a small sigh of annoyance when they see you pull out your coins. This is a freedom almost as important as free speech that's slowly and silently being choked to death by big govt and not a single so-called freedom fighter out there, be they on the left or on the right of the political spectrum is picking up on the significance of the issue.

robin_reala 7y ago
I’m not disagreeing, but have you got a reference for your first paragraph?
- Flashtoo 7y ago
  https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/en/consumer-topics/financial-services-insurance/banking/means-of-payment/cash-payment-limitations/ https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/en/consumer-topics/finan...
mtw 7y ago
In Germany, cash is still king
aiCeivi9 7y ago
> something flipped in small business owners minds EU intercharge cap (The Regulation on Interchange Fees for Card-based payment transactions) entered into force in June 2015 [0] - it was probably that. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interchange_fee#European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interchange_fee#European_Union
johnnycab 7y ago
>they used to hate plastic for small stuff, and I can increasingly feel that today, it's the exact opposite: people let out a small sigh of annoyance when they see you pull out your coins If we are to preserve and force the continual issuance of physical currency, this is one of those of annoyances, which needs to be tolerated. In a decade's time, cash as a concept will be even more eroded and probably well on it's way to being gradually phased out of acceptance/existence. In another decade or more, it will become quaint and start to evoke feelings of nostalgia, perhaps even undergoing a retro revival by getting used as an underground currency. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48133093 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48133093

bufferoverflow 7y ago

No, it's not the only way anymore. Now we have decentralized crypto currencies, and some of them are even designed for privacy, like Monero or ZCash.

darkcha0s 7y ago
That doesn't solve any of the aforementioned problems.
- bufferoverflow 7y ago
  It solves all the problems that the comment I replied to listed.
  - sametmax 7y ago
    No. A hobo will not use a crypto coin. A crypto coin will not work during a natural disaster. It will not let you live out of the grid. A crypto currency is a great complement to cash, not a replacement.
    - bufferoverflow 7y ago
      > A hobo will not use a crypto coin. Reality would like a word with you. https://qolczpnfu7-flywheel.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Bitcoin-Homeless-Man.jpg https://qolczpnfu7-flywheel.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/upload... https://i.pinimg.com/736x/20/1b/11/201b111e61b9f8266cca274d68f78d05.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/736x/20/1b/11/201b111e61b9f8266cca274d6... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2018/08/08/TELEMMGLPICT000171230216_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqNJjoeBT78QIaYdkJdEY4CnGTJFJS74MYhNY6w3GNbO8.jpeg?imwidth=450 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2018/08/08/TELE... https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a4/4b/9c/a44b9c2d5f4a671f5d23f43e96c79b3d.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a4/4b/9c/a44b9c2d5f4a671f5d23... https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article11700457.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200/Beggars-now-accepting-mobile-payments-because-we-dont-carry-loose-change-anymore.jpg https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article11700457.ece/AL...