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It makes sense that domestic flights are dropping. They already mostly disappeared decades ago for individual/pleasure travel. Taking the train, bus or driving

It makes sense that domestic flights are dropping. They already mostly disappeared decades ago for individual/pleasure travel. Taking the train, bus or driving is just better value. So it's just business travel left. I used to occasionally travel between Gothenburg and Stockholm (the two largest cities) for work for a while. Flying was slightly quicker, but only barely. There are non-stop high speed trains that take you directly from center to center. More pleasant too, and you can get some work done on the way. An airline ran TV adds pitching that flying gets you home to the kids earlier. Basically pitting peoples guilt about spending time with their kids vs. guilt about the environment. I guess it didn't work. The same children will inherit the planet after all. I'd be surprised if international flights have dropped much though. Taking the trains any further than Copenhagen doesn't really work, unless train travel is the main point of the holiday.

2rsf 7y ago
Stockholm and Göteborg are not a good example (or the opposite..) since they are too close to each other, ~500km, to cancel the wasted time going to and from the airport and waiting to board the plane. The fast trains from those city centers are indeed better than flying, although the price compared to low cost flights is too high. I don't totally agree with your conclusion- I would take trains from Stockholm to central Europe even with kids but only if prices were significantly better than low cost flights, I don't mind a 24 hour ride to Berlin with a stop over or two, but the price is actually higher than most low cost flights e.g. Norwegian
- skribbj 7y ago
  Kudos to you! I couldn't fathom taking a 24 hour train from Sthlm -> Berlin over the 1.5 hour flight. Is that an environmental decision or do you have other reasons?
  - 2rsf 7y ago
    We are not environmentalists at all (well, one of the kids is but I am paying) but we enjoy the journey as much as the destination? For the right price I don't mind changing the itinerary, but like I've said at the moment flying is cheaper then a train ride even sthlm -> copenhagen in some cases.
    - skribbj 7y ago
      I see. And I do indeed agree with you on the price - instead of shaming us into not flying (although that apparently seems to be working, too) develop comfortable and affordable alternatives.
- jalk 7y ago
  Trains in Europe and probably elsewhere too, cannot compete on price as 1) fuel is taxed and they are paying emissions fees, which airlines don’t [a] 2) the operator is often obligated to run trains at times where there are very few passengers (I.e. hourly schedules on underused routes). [a] http://www.airportwatch.org.uk/2019/05/te-found-the-eu-sat-on-data-showing-benefits-of-ending-airlines-tax-break-on-jet-fuel/ http://www.airportwatch.org.uk/2019/05/te-found-the-eu-sat-o...
leksak 7y ago
There is more to Sweden though. Lot of people still air-commute between Umeå and Stockholm. I'd argue that a proper high-speed train with a _few_ stops along major hubs running from south to north would be a great boon to the country. Then you'd be able to take slower trains to get to these hubs, as opposed to having the train stop so often that it becomes inefficient.

2rsf 7y ago

Stockholm and Göteborg are not a good example (or the opposite..) since they are too close to each other, ~500km, to cancel the wasted time going to and from the airport and waiting to board the plane. The fast trains from those city centers are indeed better than flying, although the price compared to low cost flights is too high. I don't totally agree with your conclusion- I would take trains from Stockholm to central Europe even with kids but only if prices were significantly better than low cost flights, I don't mind a 24 hour ride to Berlin with a stop over or two, but the price is actually higher than most low cost flights e.g. Norwegian

skribbj 7y ago
Kudos to you! I couldn't fathom taking a 24 hour train from Sthlm -> Berlin over the 1.5 hour flight. Is that an environmental decision or do you have other reasons?
- 2rsf 7y ago
  We are not environmentalists at all (well, one of the kids is but I am paying) but we enjoy the journey as much as the destination? For the right price I don't mind changing the itinerary, but like I've said at the moment flying is cheaper then a train ride even sthlm -> copenhagen in some cases.
  - skribbj 7y ago
    I see. And I do indeed agree with you on the price - instead of shaming us into not flying (although that apparently seems to be working, too) develop comfortable and affordable alternatives.
jalk 7y ago
Trains in Europe and probably elsewhere too, cannot compete on price as 1) fuel is taxed and they are paying emissions fees, which airlines don’t [a] 2) the operator is often obligated to run trains at times where there are very few passengers (I.e. hourly schedules on underused routes). [a] http://www.airportwatch.org.uk/2019/05/te-found-the-eu-sat-on-data-showing-benefits-of-ending-airlines-tax-break-on-jet-fuel/ http://www.airportwatch.org.uk/2019/05/te-found-the-eu-sat-o...

leksak 7y ago

There is more to Sweden though. Lot of people still air-commute between Umeå and Stockholm. I'd argue that a proper high-speed train with a _few_ stops along major hubs running from south to north would be a great boon to the country. Then you'd be able to take slower trains to get to these hubs, as opposed to having the train stop so often that it becomes inefficient.