7 ms·

Libra Core

94 points by dfischer 7y ago

leppr 7y ago
Good to see another big one embracing Rust. Interesting to note that their smart-contract language Move [1] also borrows from Rust: > Move’s bytecode verifier uses a “borrow checking” scheme similar to Rust to ensure that at most one mutable reference to a value exists at any point in time. [1]: https://developers.libra.org/docs/assets/papers/libra-move-a-language-with-programmable-resources.pdf https://developers.libra.org/docs/assets/papers/libra-move-a...
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Another surprise from IO was that the new ChromeOS sandbox infrastructure is written in Rust.
chvid 7y ago
Honestly. This looks like a major contribution to the cryptocurrency space. I am impressed.
- throwayEngineer 7y ago
  Pegged centralized currencies have existed for years.
- jki275 7y ago
  There's literally not a single innovation or contribution here. I just skimmed through the paper and there's not a thing there. It's a cut and paste from existing concepts.
- kzzzznot 7y ago
  I think this is sarcasm
um_ya 7y ago
Not sure how they're going to overcome KYC/AML.
- lawlessone 7y ago
  Well they'll already know everything about you...
- empath75 7y ago
  You’re asking how Facebook, the largest surveillance machine in the history of mankind, is going to avoid Know Your Customer?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- mschuster91 7y ago
  They collect personal ID scans already everywhere, and Paypal also (at least for me) worked simply by using a verification 1-cent transaction to my bank account.
kingvash 7y ago
It seems like it has the table-stakes features without anything new. And certainly not anything ethereum or a handful of other crypto's don't already offer.
- mihaifm 7y ago
  They're capitalizing on existing concenpts, there's hardly any innovation here. The only novelty factor is that now you can run smart contracts on a stable coin, which is not possible with the existing stable coins in the market.
fbn79 7y ago
If I'm not wrong giving a quick read to the website is like a FIAT currency, but instead of a Country Government is backed and controlled by a network of private independent (and sometime competitors) corporations. May not be a bad idea but can degenerate to a centralized currency if the controlling corporations shrink in number.
- throwayEngineer 7y ago
  This is already centralized. The governance and distribution is hand picked.
  - bassman9000 7y ago
    This And they don't even mention the assets or government/banks chosen for backing, just "highly liquid". So much for transparency.
- buchanan 7y ago
  Facebook started simple, and then started prioritising engagement(thus conflict/noise). I wonder what would be the analog for coin. Start as a medium of exchange, then start usurping national currencies. Nations would not be able to legislate them away, as business and citizens would be conducting cross and intra border commerce using libra.
bsaul 7y ago
this looks like a libertarian nightmare. The promise of government-free currency fullfilled by megacorps. Next step ? Will facebook create an artificial island somewhere and declare it a sovereign state ? Everybody can become a citizen with just a facebook id !
- faissaloo 7y ago
  It looks like an anarcho-capitalist's dream
  - chadcmulligan 7y ago
    It would be interesting to put them all on an island and see how things end up
    - faissaloo 7y ago
      I don't know whether I'm morally culpable if I let that happen.
jshaqaw 7y ago
What I still don’t see here is a compelling use case which would make a critical mass of users say “this is demonstrably better for me than the existing payments system.” All I see from my perspective as a potential user is I can do what I can already do with dollars except I lose the interest on the deposits I make to buy Libra.
- abraae 7y ago
  I can see a use case. I'm Whatsapp-ing my son who is a student, and he tells me he needs money. A button pops up onto the screen saying "Give Michael $50". I click the button and the transaction is done. With our marketing hats on we like to talk about what we can do with "one click". I've personally never seen a one click system in my life - this could actually be one, and for one of the most fundamental and valuable human activities - paying someone.
  - srfilipek 7y ago
    > A button pops up onto the screen saying "Give Michael $50". You don't need a cryptocurrency for that...
    - abraae 7y ago
      Nope you don't, it's just a tool allowing the world's biggest Bank ever to open its doors.
  - jshaqaw 7y ago
    Don’t we already have Venmo for this?
    - TheHypnotist 7y ago
      Yes - but as far as I know you would have to go into the Venmo app, and I think that's the difference. Quick Edit - I think Apple Pay can function this way via FB messenger?
robmiller 7y ago
Will FB dogfood it by paying their employees in Libra?
- ForHackernews 7y ago
  According to this news report, https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/05/facebook-cryptocurrency-coming-in-june-report.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/05/facebook-cryptocurrency-comi... yes some employees will be paid in company scrip.
bufferoverflow 7y ago
I don't trust FB with anything. They've been banning various groups, including conservatives. Why would I risk my money with them? I don't want to one day discover I can't pay because I made some comment online that disagrees with their politics.
chvid 7y ago
As far as I can see, the inclusion of a turing complete gas limited language makes it possible to do some of the things you can do with ethereum: Creating your own tokens, possibly creating a distributed exchange / order book. But only much faster and presumedly cheaper since blockchain is kept only on a few nodes and there is no expensive proof of work. Will be fun to see what comes of this.
- antocv 7y ago
  Looks like its not a blockchain at all, there is no Proof-of-Work or Proof-of-Stake, instead validators. Skimmed over documentation, consensus protocol seems to be BFT, like Stellar (XLM). So, they did not even innovate anything in cryptocurrency space. Just re-write, re-implement, re-hash old ideas with their name on it. So not really distributed, just slightly decentralized. Zuckerercoin.
  - chvid 7y ago
    What matters is the implementation; if they can put the following together: - Fully programmable smart contracts - Fast cheap transactions - Easy onboarding - Default support for fiat currencies - Nice end-user interfaces Plus a strong push to their existing user base and a number of established businesses.
    - chvid 7y ago
      But it will be fun to see what comes out of this and what is allowed. I for sure look forward to create a ponzicoin and a casino that my mum easily can use ...
  - jlevers 7y ago
    You replied to a thread that I created over a month ago about climate change [0], and I somehow never saw your reply. It's old enough that I can no longer respond to your comment, but I'd like to get in touch with you if you're still interested. My email's in my profile. Sorry to respond to you on an unrelated thread -- I don't know how else to get in touch since comments are disabled on the original thread. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19908974 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19908974
nobrains 7y ago
So, how is this: Store money in Bitcoin, and when it needs to be sent, change to Libra and send?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
alangibson 7y ago
When you consider that 1. validators are hand picked 2. "To execute transactions, each validator must know the global state of the latest version of the blockchain's distributed database." it looks like blockchain doesn't offer much additional value over a few replicated Postgres databases.
6d6b73 7y ago
I can't wait for the new wave of spam that tells me that they have access to my Linux computer using Outlook, or RDP, and that all I need to do for them to not release my d* pics is to send them some Libra Coins. Since FB will make it easy for everyone to get the coins, "hackers" will no longer have to explain how to get bitcoins.
jshaqaw 7y ago
We are heading to a world where the US Federal Reserve is preparing people for the idea of negative interest rates in the next recession (see https://www.frbsf.org/economic-research/publications/economic-letter/2019/february/how-much-could-negative-rates-have-helped-recovery/ https://www.frbsf.org/economic-research/publications/economi...) The "vig" for supporters of Libra seems to be that they capture the interest on money used to purchase Libra. In a negative interest rate world that breaks down. Moreover if the Fed wants to have meaningful negative interest rates you need to impose a haircut on non-bank deposits (i.e., cash or crypto) to avoid hoarding. I am curious how this platform incorporates the possibility of a negative interest rate environment.
rlopezcc 7y ago
oof, Libra translates to Pound(£). Imagine the confusion.
- jddj 7y ago
  Yeah, a bit annoying given that Facebook must have been aware and they could have changed a single letter somewhere to avoid it. But I guess they assumed that languages are pretty good at dealing with this sort of thing, and we'll end up with something like Libras Británicas and Libras Electrónicas/Libras de Facebook. Or better yet, Libras Falsas
jddj 7y ago
If there's any truth behind the stories of Bitcoin seeing widespread use (purchased, not mined using subsidized electricity) as a store of value in countries in the grips of hyper-inflation, surely a coin which is pegged to a basket of currencies and easily purchased through the Facebook messenger app would see even greater adoption. That said, I absolutely hate the idea of Facebook as a fintech platform and really don't look forward to being forced to maintain an account just to easily send/receive money once the network effects take hold.

94 points by dfischer 7y ago

Good to see another big one embracing Rust. Interesting to note that their smart-contract language Move [1] also borrows from Rust: > Move’s bytecode verifier uses a “borrow checking” scheme similar to Rust to ensure that at most one mutable reference to a value exists at any point in time. [1]: https://developers.libra.org/docs/assets/papers/libra-move-a-language-with-programmable-resources.pdf https://developers.libra.org/docs/assets/papers/libra-move-a...

pjmlp 7y ago
Another surprise from IO was that the new ChromeOS sandbox infrastructure is written in Rust.

chvid 7y ago

Honestly. This looks like a major contribution to the cryptocurrency space. I am impressed.

throwayEngineer 7y ago
Pegged centralized currencies have existed for years.
jki275 7y ago
There's literally not a single innovation or contribution here. I just skimmed through the paper and there's not a thing there. It's a cut and paste from existing concepts.
kzzzznot 7y ago
I think this is sarcasm

um_ya 7y ago

Not sure how they're going to overcome KYC/AML.

lawlessone 7y ago
Well they'll already know everything about you...
empath75 7y ago
You’re asking how Facebook, the largest surveillance machine in the history of mankind, is going to avoid Know Your Customer?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
mschuster91 7y ago
They collect personal ID scans already everywhere, and Paypal also (at least for me) worked simply by using a verification 1-cent transaction to my bank account.

kingvash 7y ago

It seems like it has the table-stakes features without anything new. And certainly not anything ethereum or a handful of other crypto's don't already offer.

mihaifm 7y ago
They're capitalizing on existing concenpts, there's hardly any innovation here. The only novelty factor is that now you can run smart contracts on a stable coin, which is not possible with the existing stable coins in the market.

fbn79 7y ago

If I'm not wrong giving a quick read to the website is like a FIAT currency, but instead of a Country Government is backed and controlled by a network of private independent (and sometime competitors) corporations. May not be a bad idea but can degenerate to a centralized currency if the controlling corporations shrink in number.

throwayEngineer 7y ago
This is already centralized. The governance and distribution is hand picked.
- bassman9000 7y ago
  This And they don't even mention the assets or government/banks chosen for backing, just "highly liquid". So much for transparency.
buchanan 7y ago
Facebook started simple, and then started prioritising engagement(thus conflict/noise). I wonder what would be the analog for coin. Start as a medium of exchange, then start usurping national currencies. Nations would not be able to legislate them away, as business and citizens would be conducting cross and intra border commerce using libra.

bsaul 7y ago

this looks like a libertarian nightmare. The promise of government-free currency fullfilled by megacorps. Next step ? Will facebook create an artificial island somewhere and declare it a sovereign state ? Everybody can become a citizen with just a facebook id !

faissaloo 7y ago
It looks like an anarcho-capitalist's dream
- chadcmulligan 7y ago
  It would be interesting to put them all on an island and see how things end up
  - faissaloo 7y ago
    I don't know whether I'm morally culpable if I let that happen.

jshaqaw 7y ago

What I still don’t see here is a compelling use case which would make a critical mass of users say “this is demonstrably better for me than the existing payments system.” All I see from my perspective as a potential user is I can do what I can already do with dollars except I lose the interest on the deposits I make to buy Libra.

abraae 7y ago
I can see a use case. I'm Whatsapp-ing my son who is a student, and he tells me he needs money. A button pops up onto the screen saying "Give Michael $50". I click the button and the transaction is done. With our marketing hats on we like to talk about what we can do with "one click". I've personally never seen a one click system in my life - this could actually be one, and for one of the most fundamental and valuable human activities - paying someone.
- srfilipek 7y ago
  > A button pops up onto the screen saying "Give Michael $50". You don't need a cryptocurrency for that...
  - abraae 7y ago
    Nope you don't, it's just a tool allowing the world's biggest Bank ever to open its doors.
- jshaqaw 7y ago
  Don’t we already have Venmo for this?
  - TheHypnotist 7y ago
    Yes - but as far as I know you would have to go into the Venmo app, and I think that's the difference. Quick Edit - I think Apple Pay can function this way via FB messenger?

robmiller 7y ago

Will FB dogfood it by paying their employees in Libra?

ForHackernews 7y ago
According to this news report, https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/05/facebook-cryptocurrency-coming-in-june-report.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/05/facebook-cryptocurrency-comi... yes some employees will be paid in company scrip.

bufferoverflow 7y ago

I don't trust FB with anything. They've been banning various groups, including conservatives. Why would I risk my money with them? I don't want to one day discover I can't pay because I made some comment online that disagrees with their politics.

chvid 7y ago

As far as I can see, the inclusion of a turing complete gas limited language makes it possible to do some of the things you can do with ethereum: Creating your own tokens, possibly creating a distributed exchange / order book. But only much faster and presumedly cheaper since blockchain is kept only on a few nodes and there is no expensive proof of work. Will be fun to see what comes of this.

antocv 7y ago
Looks like its not a blockchain at all, there is no Proof-of-Work or Proof-of-Stake, instead validators. Skimmed over documentation, consensus protocol seems to be BFT, like Stellar (XLM). So, they did not even innovate anything in cryptocurrency space. Just re-write, re-implement, re-hash old ideas with their name on it. So not really distributed, just slightly decentralized. Zuckerercoin.
- chvid 7y ago
  What matters is the implementation; if they can put the following together: - Fully programmable smart contracts - Fast cheap transactions - Easy onboarding - Default support for fiat currencies - Nice end-user interfaces Plus a strong push to their existing user base and a number of established businesses.
  - chvid 7y ago
    But it will be fun to see what comes out of this and what is allowed. I for sure look forward to create a ponzicoin and a casino that my mum easily can use ...
- jlevers 7y ago
  You replied to a thread that I created over a month ago about climate change [0], and I somehow never saw your reply. It's old enough that I can no longer respond to your comment, but I'd like to get in touch with you if you're still interested. My email's in my profile. Sorry to respond to you on an unrelated thread -- I don't know how else to get in touch since comments are disabled on the original thread. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19908974 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19908974

nobrains 7y ago

So, how is this: Store money in Bitcoin, and when it needs to be sent, change to Libra and send?

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

alangibson 7y ago

When you consider that 1. validators are hand picked 2. "To execute transactions, each validator must know the global state of the latest version of the blockchain's distributed database." it looks like blockchain doesn't offer much additional value over a few replicated Postgres databases.

6d6b73 7y ago

I can't wait for the new wave of spam that tells me that they have access to my Linux computer using Outlook, or RDP, and that all I need to do for them to not release my d* pics is to send them some Libra Coins. Since FB will make it easy for everyone to get the coins, "hackers" will no longer have to explain how to get bitcoins.

jshaqaw 7y ago

We are heading to a world where the US Federal Reserve is preparing people for the idea of negative interest rates in the next recession (see https://www.frbsf.org/economic-research/publications/economic-letter/2019/february/how-much-could-negative-rates-have-helped-recovery/ https://www.frbsf.org/economic-research/publications/economi...) The "vig" for supporters of Libra seems to be that they capture the interest on money used to purchase Libra. In a negative interest rate world that breaks down. Moreover if the Fed wants to have meaningful negative interest rates you need to impose a haircut on non-bank deposits (i.e., cash or crypto) to avoid hoarding. I am curious how this platform incorporates the possibility of a negative interest rate environment.

rlopezcc 7y ago

oof, Libra translates to Pound(£). Imagine the confusion.

jddj 7y ago
Yeah, a bit annoying given that Facebook must have been aware and they could have changed a single letter somewhere to avoid it. But I guess they assumed that languages are pretty good at dealing with this sort of thing, and we'll end up with something like Libras Británicas and Libras Electrónicas/Libras de Facebook. Or better yet, Libras Falsas

jddj 7y ago

If there's any truth behind the stories of Bitcoin seeing widespread use (purchased, not mined using subsidized electricity) as a store of value in countries in the grips of hyper-inflation, surely a coin which is pegged to a basket of currencies and easily purchased through the Facebook messenger app would see even greater adoption. That said, I absolutely hate the idea of Facebook as a fintech platform and really don't look forward to being forced to maintain an account just to easily send/receive money once the network effects take hold.