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I couldn't agree more. I can take a C for about one-fifth the work of an A. I'm usually interested enough to explore the interesting material at depth anyway. I

I couldn't agree more. I can take a C for about one-fifth the work of an A. I'm usually interested enough to explore the interesting material at depth anyway. I just don't do every tedious assignment.

sukuriant 16y ago
And when your startup fails and half of what you have for finding a job is your grades, what do you do?
- dtran 16y ago
  Granted, I've only interviewed for summer internships (and hope to never have to interview for a job), but the majority of employers didn't ask about/didn't care about my grades. Some of the best hackers I know aren't straight A students, and I agree that you don't need good grades to learn the material. That said, I think the mentality that you only need to do the requisite amount of work to pass can be pretty dangerous. Sure, you may think you understand the course material without having to do the work, but just like with startups, the devil is in the details and the actual execution is what matters. If actually doing the work wasn't crucial to the learning, why not just read over and think about every programming assignment for 10 minutes without doing the actual programming?
  - colinsidoti 16y ago
    I am constantly applying to interesting jobs and if I come across a good enough offer I'd be happy to leave school. Good enough has a very bar though, and I haven't found anything worth leaving school. That said, I've come across many offers that are more than enough to make a living. I also wouldn't say that my approach is doing "the requisite amount of work to pass." Classes inherently have a lot of fluff, a lot of which doesn't really teach you anything. Take my software design class, for example. There were a few core concepts they pushed heavily and I learned those well, but I already knew the small implementation and GUI details. I could have spent the time building those out and getting the A, but I'd much rather take the time to apply those details to my startup. It turns out that learning what I felt I needed to learn earned me a B in Software. It's different for every class, but I think it's possible to both pursue a startup and get your money's worth out of school. Unfortunately, it's often your grades that take the hit.
  - sukuriant 16y ago
    were your grades on your application/resume?
- count 16y ago
  If your startup fails, then you don't just have your grades for finding a job, do you?
  - sukuriant 16y ago
    I imagine that would depend on how almost-successful your startup was. At the same time, that may make it substantially easier to get into a separate small company/mature startup (mature to the point that they're hiring).
  - Nemisis7654 16y ago
    I am not certain, but I have been interviewed by several companies for internships lately (not sure if the hiring process for jobs are the same for internships) but the interviewer always seemed more interested in my projects outside of class than my school work and grades. So, it would seem that they would be highly impressed by attempting a startup regardless of failing or succeeding.
arghnoname 16y ago
The level of effort required to get a B instead of a C, or an A instead of a B, in my experience, is not linear at all. Getting a C just requires being conscious. Getting an A can be pretty tough (depending on school, course, instructor). So yeah, it's a lot easier to get a C, and it's possible to get a C and have full knowledge of the material, but it's also very easy to _think_ you have full knowledge. I'd aim for a B, not a C. If one really understands what's going on that shouldn't be tough to get, and it will give a GPA that won't cause some employers to turn an employee away. A student is more likely to actually know what class they took if they at least got a B.
- colinsidoti 16y ago
  I think the overarching idea is to focus on learning and not worry about the grades. Exactly what you'll end up with depends on the school, but also doesn't really matter. I'm at MIT, and here it's very difficult to both understand the material and do worse than a C. I imagine other schools are similar, but I can't really speak to that.

sukuriant 16y ago

And when your startup fails and half of what you have for finding a job is your grades, what do you do?

dtran 16y ago
Granted, I've only interviewed for summer internships (and hope to never have to interview for a job), but the majority of employers didn't ask about/didn't care about my grades. Some of the best hackers I know aren't straight A students, and I agree that you don't need good grades to learn the material. That said, I think the mentality that you only need to do the requisite amount of work to pass can be pretty dangerous. Sure, you may think you understand the course material without having to do the work, but just like with startups, the devil is in the details and the actual execution is what matters. If actually doing the work wasn't crucial to the learning, why not just read over and think about every programming assignment for 10 minutes without doing the actual programming?
- colinsidoti 16y ago
  I am constantly applying to interesting jobs and if I come across a good enough offer I'd be happy to leave school. Good enough has a very bar though, and I haven't found anything worth leaving school. That said, I've come across many offers that are more than enough to make a living. I also wouldn't say that my approach is doing "the requisite amount of work to pass." Classes inherently have a lot of fluff, a lot of which doesn't really teach you anything. Take my software design class, for example. There were a few core concepts they pushed heavily and I learned those well, but I already knew the small implementation and GUI details. I could have spent the time building those out and getting the A, but I'd much rather take the time to apply those details to my startup. It turns out that learning what I felt I needed to learn earned me a B in Software. It's different for every class, but I think it's possible to both pursue a startup and get your money's worth out of school. Unfortunately, it's often your grades that take the hit.
- sukuriant 16y ago
  were your grades on your application/resume?
count 16y ago
If your startup fails, then you don't just have your grades for finding a job, do you?
- sukuriant 16y ago
  I imagine that would depend on how almost-successful your startup was. At the same time, that may make it substantially easier to get into a separate small company/mature startup (mature to the point that they're hiring).
- Nemisis7654 16y ago
  I am not certain, but I have been interviewed by several companies for internships lately (not sure if the hiring process for jobs are the same for internships) but the interviewer always seemed more interested in my projects outside of class than my school work and grades. So, it would seem that they would be highly impressed by attempting a startup regardless of failing or succeeding.

arghnoname 16y ago

The level of effort required to get a B instead of a C, or an A instead of a B, in my experience, is not linear at all. Getting a C just requires being conscious. Getting an A can be pretty tough (depending on school, course, instructor). So yeah, it's a lot easier to get a C, and it's possible to get a C and have full knowledge of the material, but it's also very easy to _think_ you have full knowledge. I'd aim for a B, not a C. If one really understands what's going on that shouldn't be tough to get, and it will give a GPA that won't cause some employers to turn an employee away. A student is more likely to actually know what class they took if they at least got a B.

colinsidoti 16y ago
I think the overarching idea is to focus on learning and not worry about the grades. Exactly what you'll end up with depends on the school, but also doesn't really matter. I'm at MIT, and here it's very difficult to both understand the material and do worse than a C. I imagine other schools are similar, but I can't really speak to that.