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What Chinese Citizens Have and Haven’t Learned About Hong Kong’s Protests

27 points by blondie9x 7y ago

baby 7y ago
What is the UN stance on this issue btw?
- ardy42 7y ago
  Probably silence, since China can veto any security council resolution, and a lot of the countries in the general assembly probably don't care to make waves (if they even care at all) since they want Chinese money.
- NotPaidToPost 7y ago
  Why would the UN have a stance on this? It's been hugely magnified the media, but it is no more than a government bringing a bill forward and people demonstrating against it. This often happens in most Western countries and no-one asks the UN what they think about it. Perhaps time to put things into perspective.
  - Maken 7y ago
    It's only an international affair because the Chinese government has gone full paranoid and blame other countries because their people didn't like the bill. Anyway, massive demonstrations are usually newsworthy, like the Yellow Vests in France until a few months ago.
kodz4 7y ago
Does Donald Trump have a Weibo account? Maybe he can educate and inform those poor mindless Chinese people about what is going on in the world. Free flow of info in the US to just 300 million people really needs to be replicated with 1.4 billion people for good things to happen right?
calyth2018 7y ago
Sure, China great firewalling the protest, which is very expected. Ever noticed that none of the articles so far has actually articulated what's bad about the extradition bill? The reporting language is typically either "Beijing-backed extradition bill", or some form of "extradition bill opposed by Hong Kongers" https://www.legco.gov.hk/yr18-19/english/bills/brief/b201903291_brf.pdf https://www.legco.gov.hk/yr18-19/english/bills/brief/b201903... is the older version of the bill, which did not contain the concession that bumped the minimum prison sentence requirement from 3-years to 7-years, before the protest started, from one of the news article I read. SCMP, which is basically the English language newspaper of record in HK, has this infographic https://multimedia.scmp.com/infographics/news/hong-kong/article/3013512/hong-kong-extradition/index.html https://multimedia.scmp.com/infographics/news/hong-kong/arti...
- Maken 7y ago
  For what I have understood, the issue is that the bill is a loophole in which they can essentially indict a individual with dubious charges until they fullfill the threshold, and then absorb him into mainland China, at which point he's outside any legal guarantee and the real trial can begin.
  - calyth2018 7y ago
    The first part of the PDF from the legco.gov.hk states that it must be double-criminalty, which means the act that the person being extradited must be a crime for both jurisdiction. There's also no double jeopardy, no political indictments. Suppose the CE is in cahoots, it then goes to the courts, which has been the least affected because the elites in HK depends on it for their business dealings.
- hker 7y ago
  > Ever noticed that none of the articles so far has actually articulated what's bad about the extradition bill? To see why Hong Kong people think the extradition bill and its amendment is bad, let me cite a section from Leung Kai Chi (in Chinese [1], translated as [2] with help from Google translate): > 3. Why do Hong Kong people oppose this amendment? > Four reasons. First of all, after the abolition of the provisions of the "Central People's Government or any other part of the government of the People's Republic of China", not only can the suspects be handed over to Taiwan, but also can be handed over to mainland China, which will greatly undermine Hong Kong's unique position. After all, the judicial system in mainland China is not independent, and it is often politically affected and cannot be fair and just. For example, Zhao Lianhai, who was vocalized by the family members of the tainted milk powder, was jailed for being convicted of causing trouble. If the amendment to the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance is passed, it means that mainland China can borrow Hong Kong's judicial system to send Hong Kong people to mainland China for trial. Public opinion believes that this will make many people feel scared, and Hong Kong people will no longer enjoy the freedom guaranteed by the Basic Law. > Secondly, Hong Kong is an international commercial city. Merchants from all over the world use Hong Kong as a regional headquarters to facilitate business in mainland China. They chose to set up regional headquarters in Hong Kong instead of directly in mainland China because of the guarantees brought about by the independence of Hong Kong's judiciary. Without this guarantee, they have to face various legal problems. For example, mainland China's officialdom and business circles have various unspoken rules. Doing business in mainland China often touches some legal gray areas. If the amendment to the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance is passed, these businessmen will have to worry about whether they will be sent to mainland China for trial. Even businessmen who are cautious and never break the law will be worried that they will be accused of being accused of lawsuits and being guilty of crimes. In this regard, many chambers of commerce in Hong Kong have issued a statement against the revision, and some companies have cancelled over 10 billion business investment because of fear of economic prospects. Public opinion is more worried that foreign capital will move the regional headquarters to other places, and foreign governments are more likely to withdraw special preferential policies for Hong Kong (relative to mainland China). These developments will seriously hit the Hong Kong economy and affect people's livelihood. > Thirdly, according to the existing provisions, whether it is a long-term agreement or a case transfer, it must be considered by the Legislative Council. According to the proposed amendment, the Chief Executive will no longer need the consent of the Legislative Council to initiate a case transfer. In this regard, public opinion believes that the supervision of the Chief Executive has been substantially removed, which has greatly reduced the protection of suspects. Since the Chief Executive of Hong Kong is not produced by Hong Kong people by one person, it will be difficult for the public to be held accountable if the relevant power is abused. > Fourthly, this amendment has caused a lot of social controversy and it is reasonable to give the public sufficient time to understand, discuss and reflect their opinions. However, this time the Government only has 20 days of public consultation. After the Bar Association, the Law Society, and even some religious groups and educational groups that were relatively conservative in their usual positions, the government still insisted on proposing amendments and demanded that the Legislative Council pass as soon as possible, triggering a strong rebound in public opinion. [1]: https://medium.com/@leungkaichihk/%E5%8F%8D%E9%80%81%E4%B8%AD%E7%AD%94%E5%95%8F%E9%9B%86-9841974d889c https://medium.com/@leungkaichihk/%E5%8F%8D%E9%80%81%E4%B8%A... [2]: https://pastebin.com/6JqR1EsR https://pastebin.com/6JqR1EsR

27 points by blondie9x 7y ago

baby 7y ago

What is the UN stance on this issue btw?

ardy42 7y ago
Probably silence, since China can veto any security council resolution, and a lot of the countries in the general assembly probably don't care to make waves (if they even care at all) since they want Chinese money.
NotPaidToPost 7y ago
Why would the UN have a stance on this? It's been hugely magnified the media, but it is no more than a government bringing a bill forward and people demonstrating against it. This often happens in most Western countries and no-one asks the UN what they think about it. Perhaps time to put things into perspective.
- Maken 7y ago
  It's only an international affair because the Chinese government has gone full paranoid and blame other countries because their people didn't like the bill. Anyway, massive demonstrations are usually newsworthy, like the Yellow Vests in France until a few months ago.

kodz4 7y ago

Does Donald Trump have a Weibo account? Maybe he can educate and inform those poor mindless Chinese people about what is going on in the world. Free flow of info in the US to just 300 million people really needs to be replicated with 1.4 billion people for good things to happen right?

calyth2018 7y ago

Sure, China great firewalling the protest, which is very expected. Ever noticed that none of the articles so far has actually articulated what's bad about the extradition bill? The reporting language is typically either "Beijing-backed extradition bill", or some form of "extradition bill opposed by Hong Kongers" https://www.legco.gov.hk/yr18-19/english/bills/brief/b201903291_brf.pdf https://www.legco.gov.hk/yr18-19/english/bills/brief/b201903... is the older version of the bill, which did not contain the concession that bumped the minimum prison sentence requirement from 3-years to 7-years, before the protest started, from one of the news article I read. SCMP, which is basically the English language newspaper of record in HK, has this infographic https://multimedia.scmp.com/infographics/news/hong-kong/article/3013512/hong-kong-extradition/index.html https://multimedia.scmp.com/infographics/news/hong-kong/arti...

Maken 7y ago
For what I have understood, the issue is that the bill is a loophole in which they can essentially indict a individual with dubious charges until they fullfill the threshold, and then absorb him into mainland China, at which point he's outside any legal guarantee and the real trial can begin.
- calyth2018 7y ago
  The first part of the PDF from the legco.gov.hk states that it must be double-criminalty, which means the act that the person being extradited must be a crime for both jurisdiction. There's also no double jeopardy, no political indictments. Suppose the CE is in cahoots, it then goes to the courts, which has been the least affected because the elites in HK depends on it for their business dealings.
hker 7y ago
> Ever noticed that none of the articles so far has actually articulated what's bad about the extradition bill? To see why Hong Kong people think the extradition bill and its amendment is bad, let me cite a section from Leung Kai Chi (in Chinese [1], translated as [2] with help from Google translate): > 3. Why do Hong Kong people oppose this amendment? > Four reasons. First of all, after the abolition of the provisions of the "Central People's Government or any other part of the government of the People's Republic of China", not only can the suspects be handed over to Taiwan, but also can be handed over to mainland China, which will greatly undermine Hong Kong's unique position. After all, the judicial system in mainland China is not independent, and it is often politically affected and cannot be fair and just. For example, Zhao Lianhai, who was vocalized by the family members of the tainted milk powder, was jailed for being convicted of causing trouble. If the amendment to the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance is passed, it means that mainland China can borrow Hong Kong's judicial system to send Hong Kong people to mainland China for trial. Public opinion believes that this will make many people feel scared, and Hong Kong people will no longer enjoy the freedom guaranteed by the Basic Law. > Secondly, Hong Kong is an international commercial city. Merchants from all over the world use Hong Kong as a regional headquarters to facilitate business in mainland China. They chose to set up regional headquarters in Hong Kong instead of directly in mainland China because of the guarantees brought about by the independence of Hong Kong's judiciary. Without this guarantee, they have to face various legal problems. For example, mainland China's officialdom and business circles have various unspoken rules. Doing business in mainland China often touches some legal gray areas. If the amendment to the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance is passed, these businessmen will have to worry about whether they will be sent to mainland China for trial. Even businessmen who are cautious and never break the law will be worried that they will be accused of being accused of lawsuits and being guilty of crimes. In this regard, many chambers of commerce in Hong Kong have issued a statement against the revision, and some companies have cancelled over 10 billion business investment because of fear of economic prospects. Public opinion is more worried that foreign capital will move the regional headquarters to other places, and foreign governments are more likely to withdraw special preferential policies for Hong Kong (relative to mainland China). These developments will seriously hit the Hong Kong economy and affect people's livelihood. > Thirdly, according to the existing provisions, whether it is a long-term agreement or a case transfer, it must be considered by the Legislative Council. According to the proposed amendment, the Chief Executive will no longer need the consent of the Legislative Council to initiate a case transfer. In this regard, public opinion believes that the supervision of the Chief Executive has been substantially removed, which has greatly reduced the protection of suspects. Since the Chief Executive of Hong Kong is not produced by Hong Kong people by one person, it will be difficult for the public to be held accountable if the relevant power is abused. > Fourthly, this amendment has caused a lot of social controversy and it is reasonable to give the public sufficient time to understand, discuss and reflect their opinions. However, this time the Government only has 20 days of public consultation. After the Bar Association, the Law Society, and even some religious groups and educational groups that were relatively conservative in their usual positions, the government still insisted on proposing amendments and demanded that the Legislative Council pass as soon as possible, triggering a strong rebound in public opinion. [1]: https://medium.com/@leungkaichihk/%E5%8F%8D%E9%80%81%E4%B8%AD%E7%AD%94%E5%95%8F%E9%9B%86-9841974d889c https://medium.com/@leungkaichihk/%E5%8F%8D%E9%80%81%E4%B8%A... [2]: https://pastebin.com/6JqR1EsR https://pastebin.com/6JqR1EsR