3 ms·

>It enables faster transactions and reactions to the transaction states than regular currency. This is only true in the US, where the inter-bank financial syst

>It enables faster transactions and reactions to the transaction states than regular currency. This is only true in the US, where the inter-bank financial system runs on mainframes and 40 year old code. The British banking system decided a while ago that they were going to update their bank communication system, and now they can send sums between bank accounts at different banks within 10 seconds.

russdpale 7y ago
This is what I have been saying, its not enough to be a payment system anymore, banks are catching up and people will always sacrifice security for convenience, it is simply human nature. I think where is messing up is by not allowing more nodes. The brave project is dispensing enough money for people in third world countries to pay for their internet connection. The true value of crypto currencies is exchanging computational abilities into social mobility, and I don't see where facebook coin does that. Telegram's coin won't, either, but payment/messaging system is big business right now.
EthanHeilman 7y ago
10 seconds is still an two orders of magnitude too slow given many use cases and the technology which is currently available. I should be able to tap my card on a subway turnstile and have it open immediately such that the subway faces zero fraud risk. A centralized system should be limited only by RTT and there are ways to overcome even that via caching layers or cryptographic techniques. You want something sub 250ms.
- desc 7y ago
  It doesn't need to be centralised, and it doesn't even need to be limited by RTT. 'Zero fraud risk': you cannot prevent people from finding loopholes. Every system breaks. Instead, you use the same techniques that have been used for centuries in finance: keep audit logs, make it possible to fix things later, and maybe try to catch the majority of possible attacks by adding more rules. If you're processing tens of millions of transactions a second, you do not have a single point of truth. You have at least a cluster, ie. a distributed system. Fortunately finance grew up before automatic computing and telecoms even existed, so its algorithms and systems run just fine (FSpecificVO) at less than 1 FLOP/S with communication latencies measured in weeks. So you might as well just collect transactions locally, then sort them out as a batch job in the evening, with a percent or two price hike to cover liabilities due to fraud. Last time I went anywhere near London, they had the instant payment system working down there in the Tube. It's not centralised and none of the important stuff is necessarily low-latency, but it seems to work fine anyway.
- TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
  It's usually much faster, but it depends on the particular banks. With my particular pair of banks, I get the notification from the destination bank before I see the confirmation from the origin bank!
thecupisblue 7y ago
Also in the EU. Transactions halt at 3 or 5 PM between different banks and don't happen on the weekends AFAIK. At least from what I know from using regular banks.
- thefounder 7y ago
  Depends by the bank you use. https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/pr/date/2018/html/ecb.pr181130.en.html https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/pr/date/2018/html/ecb.pr1811...
thefounder 7y ago
I believe there is a similar pan-european system so instant payments are a reality in Europe/EU. https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/pr/date/2018/html/ecb.pr181130.en.html https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/pr/date/2018/html/ecb.pr1811...

russdpale 7y ago

This is what I have been saying, its not enough to be a payment system anymore, banks are catching up and people will always sacrifice security for convenience, it is simply human nature. I think where is messing up is by not allowing more nodes. The brave project is dispensing enough money for people in third world countries to pay for their internet connection. The true value of crypto currencies is exchanging computational abilities into social mobility, and I don't see where facebook coin does that. Telegram's coin won't, either, but payment/messaging system is big business right now.

EthanHeilman 7y ago

10 seconds is still an two orders of magnitude too slow given many use cases and the technology which is currently available. I should be able to tap my card on a subway turnstile and have it open immediately such that the subway faces zero fraud risk. A centralized system should be limited only by RTT and there are ways to overcome even that via caching layers or cryptographic techniques. You want something sub 250ms.

desc 7y ago
It doesn't need to be centralised, and it doesn't even need to be limited by RTT. 'Zero fraud risk': you cannot prevent people from finding loopholes. Every system breaks. Instead, you use the same techniques that have been used for centuries in finance: keep audit logs, make it possible to fix things later, and maybe try to catch the majority of possible attacks by adding more rules. If you're processing tens of millions of transactions a second, you do not have a single point of truth. You have at least a cluster, ie. a distributed system. Fortunately finance grew up before automatic computing and telecoms even existed, so its algorithms and systems run just fine (FSpecificVO) at less than 1 FLOP/S with communication latencies measured in weeks. So you might as well just collect transactions locally, then sort them out as a batch job in the evening, with a percent or two price hike to cover liabilities due to fraud. Last time I went anywhere near London, they had the instant payment system working down there in the Tube. It's not centralised and none of the important stuff is necessarily low-latency, but it seems to work fine anyway.
TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
It's usually much faster, but it depends on the particular banks. With my particular pair of banks, I get the notification from the destination bank before I see the confirmation from the origin bank!

thecupisblue 7y ago

Also in the EU. Transactions halt at 3 or 5 PM between different banks and don't happen on the weekends AFAIK. At least from what I know from using regular banks.

thefounder 7y ago
Depends by the bank you use. https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/pr/date/2018/html/ecb.pr181130.en.html https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/pr/date/2018/html/ecb.pr1811...

thefounder 7y ago

I believe there is a similar pan-european system so instant payments are a reality in Europe/EU. https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/pr/date/2018/html/ecb.pr181130.en.html https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/pr/date/2018/html/ecb.pr1811...