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I have no desire to listen to people I consider to be assholes. I have no problem censuring those people in my life. There is no right to be an asshole. If y

by jmcqk6 7y ago

I have no desire to listen to people I consider to be assholes. I have no problem censuring those people in my life. There is no right to be an asshole. If you're going to be shitty towards other people, you should not expect a positive reaction from them. You should probably expect to be treated shitty in return. That's basically the golden rule. Instead there is a bunch of people who believe their shitty behavior is completely justified and righteous and then can't comprehend why people don't want to tolerate them. I have no sympathy for that, whatever language you want to use. Call it censorship if you want, but there is no rule nor law that says shitty behavior has to be tolerated and supported.

deogeo 7y ago
And I have no desire to be lied to, yet here we are, censoring a group, and claiming they're not being censored. When faced with the facts, the question is evaded, attempts are made to change the topic, and every slippery, misleading tactic is used to avoid admission. I can only conclude such people are wholly uninterested in the truth, and are in fact actively opposed to it.
- kup0 7y ago
  I think a lot of people tie a certain emotional value / weight / bias / power dynamic / etc to the word censor instead of using it in the cold (valid) way you are here. In other words, a forum that bans speech of type X is setting rules and a government that bans speech of type X is censoring, when truly, both are the same action (censorship) but in completely different contexts. That might account for why it seems many people on this thread are talking past each other. I don't even think, as you imply, that the person you are replying to is purposely using misleading tactics to avoid admission. I feel like there's this avoidance of using the word censorship because people think it implies something they don't want to imply about their principles. I could be wrong, but this is just something I've seen play out again and again in discussions about this topic. For instance, my belief that it is fine and in-fact desirable that private forums censor particular topics, behaviors, etc doesn't necessarily mean that on-principle I am across-the-board "pro-censorship" (whatever that means). So yes, a group is being censored from a private forum and decided to create their own private forum. I still don't see a problem with that, or "admitting" that is what is happening.
  - deogeo 7y ago
    > the person you are replying to is purposely using misleading tactics to avoid admission. I honestly don't think it's on purpose, nor do I think it's limited to the word/act of censorship. It's a simple, subconscious mechanism of group I dislike is victim of X (justly or unjustly) --> victimhood grants social power --> downplay/diminish/justify their victimization so they do not gain power
- jmcqk6 7y ago
  Who, exactly, is the 'we' here? Who, exactly, is 'such people' here? You're talking in vagaries, and including me in them, and I don't particularly care for that. Bottom line for me is that if you want to call assholes being excluded from some spaces as 'censorship', you're free to do that, but most people are just going to call that 'assholes getting what they deserve'. If you want to argue that we should be more accommodating towards assholes, then I really look forward to hearing that argument.
  - deogeo 7y ago
    I was talking about the general situation (hence the vagaries). And I'm not arguing for being more accommodating - I'm arguing for calling a spade a spade. To kick a group of people out of almost every discussion forum, then accuse them of having a "persecution complex", is hypocritical in the extreme. > If you want to argue that we should be more accommodating towards assholes Not once did I argue that they should not have been excluded, or anything even remotely similar, yet almost everyone who replies insists on putting words in my mouth. Given how straight-forward my posts were, I'm going to assume this misreading was deliberate.
    - jmcqk6 7y ago
      You're admitting to speaking in vagaries and then also calling your posts straight-forward, and then basically accusing me of trolling you. Sorry I can't read your mind.
      - deogeo 7y ago
        Sorry, I should have said 'generalities'. If you can point at which phrase I used that implied we should be more accommodating towards assholes, perhaps I can learn to express myself more clearly in the future.

by jmcqk6 7y ago

deogeo 7y ago

And I have no desire to be lied to, yet here we are, censoring a group, and claiming they're not being censored. When faced with the facts, the question is evaded, attempts are made to change the topic, and every slippery, misleading tactic is used to avoid admission. I can only conclude such people are wholly uninterested in the truth, and are in fact actively opposed to it.

kup0 7y ago
I think a lot of people tie a certain emotional value / weight / bias / power dynamic / etc to the word censor instead of using it in the cold (valid) way you are here. In other words, a forum that bans speech of type X is setting rules and a government that bans speech of type X is censoring, when truly, both are the same action (censorship) but in completely different contexts. That might account for why it seems many people on this thread are talking past each other. I don't even think, as you imply, that the person you are replying to is purposely using misleading tactics to avoid admission. I feel like there's this avoidance of using the word censorship because people think it implies something they don't want to imply about their principles. I could be wrong, but this is just something I've seen play out again and again in discussions about this topic. For instance, my belief that it is fine and in-fact desirable that private forums censor particular topics, behaviors, etc doesn't necessarily mean that on-principle I am across-the-board "pro-censorship" (whatever that means). So yes, a group is being censored from a private forum and decided to create their own private forum. I still don't see a problem with that, or "admitting" that is what is happening.
- deogeo 7y ago
  > the person you are replying to is purposely using misleading tactics to avoid admission. I honestly don't think it's on purpose, nor do I think it's limited to the word/act of censorship. It's a simple, subconscious mechanism of group I dislike is victim of X (justly or unjustly) --> victimhood grants social power --> downplay/diminish/justify their victimization so they do not gain power
jmcqk6 7y ago
Who, exactly, is the 'we' here? Who, exactly, is 'such people' here? You're talking in vagaries, and including me in them, and I don't particularly care for that. Bottom line for me is that if you want to call assholes being excluded from some spaces as 'censorship', you're free to do that, but most people are just going to call that 'assholes getting what they deserve'. If you want to argue that we should be more accommodating towards assholes, then I really look forward to hearing that argument.
- deogeo 7y ago
  I was talking about the general situation (hence the vagaries). And I'm not arguing for being more accommodating - I'm arguing for calling a spade a spade. To kick a group of people out of almost every discussion forum, then accuse them of having a "persecution complex", is hypocritical in the extreme. > If you want to argue that we should be more accommodating towards assholes Not once did I argue that they should not have been excluded, or anything even remotely similar, yet almost everyone who replies insists on putting words in my mouth. Given how straight-forward my posts were, I'm going to assume this misreading was deliberate.
  - jmcqk6 7y ago
    You're admitting to speaking in vagaries and then also calling your posts straight-forward, and then basically accusing me of trolling you. Sorry I can't read your mind.
    - deogeo 7y ago
      Sorry, I should have said 'generalities'. If you can point at which phrase I used that implied we should be more accommodating towards assholes, perhaps I can learn to express myself more clearly in the future.