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".. to objects that it can identify as a hazard. We've already seen incidents where it fails to spot hazards such as cyclists and crash barriers, due to limitat

".. to objects that it can identify as a hazard. We've already seen incidents where it fails to spot hazards such as cyclists and crash barriers, due to limitations such as having to filter out stationary objects from radar returns." Really? I've seen no such reports with regard to assisted emergency braking systems. Please cite a reference.

pjc50 7y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19932918 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19932918 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19802284 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19802284 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17257239 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17257239 "These vehicles will run into stationary obstacles at full speed with no warning or emergency braking at all." Anyway, the point was a general one - the computer hazard identification is very far from perfect at the moment, and benefits from a human spotting hazards that the automated system does not.
- Recurecur 7y ago
  Those reports were WRT full autonomous driving - not "assisted emergency braking". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_brake_assist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_brake_assist I see no mention of problems on the Wikipedia page. Do you know of any?
alistairSH 7y ago
One of many articles... https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-autopilot-why-crash-radar/ https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-autopilot-why-crash-radar/
- Recurecur 7y ago
  See above response.
  - alistairSH 7y ago
    Emergency braking is part of autonomous driving, so ...? Anyways, my VW has assisted emergency braking. I've had opposite issues - water splashes across sensor and the car brakes for no good reason. Generally going through a large shallow puddle and moderate speed. Happened 2 or 3 times and now I disable when driving near the beach after rain.
    - Recurecur 7y ago
      "Anyways, my VW has assisted emergency braking. I've had opposite issues - water splashes across sensor and the car brakes for no good reason. Generally going through a large shallow puddle and moderate speed. Happened 2 or 3 times and now I disable when driving near the beach after rain." Your "issue" is essentially the system being extra safe - similar to slowing down when a bunch of water hits your windshield. Seems highly appropriate to me.
      - alistairSH 7y ago
        Except it's a full-on emergency brake reaction and liable to get me rear-ended. Per the initial discussion, there are places (and this is one) where a human is still MUCH better at assessing the situation and acting appropriately.
        Recurecur 7y ago
        "Per the initial discussion, there are places (and this is one) where a human is still MUCH better at assessing the situation and acting appropriately." You've done nothing to support that assertion. "MUCH better at assessing the situation and acting appropriately" doesn't compensate for 10x slower reaction time. Nor does it account for the high percentage of time that humans are paying attention to something besides driving. Machine systems don't get distracted, at least. We'll agree to disagree, but anticipate fully autonomous cars sooner rather than later. ;-)
    - Recurecur 7y ago
      "Emergency braking is part of autonomous driving, so ...?" So, the Tesla issues involved not identifying objects in the field of regard correctly, and thus not steering appropriately. Brake systems weren't involved in either crash, IIRC. Assisted emergency braking is much more narrowly focused than full autonomous driving. It doesn't care what the object is, if it's solid, in front of the vehicle, and in it's path, the system will brake. These days it potentially has vision, sonar, lidar and radar to provide sensory input. That's a whole lot more information than a human can access.

pjc50 7y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19932918 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19932918 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19802284 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19802284 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17257239 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17257239 "These vehicles will run into stationary obstacles at full speed with no warning or emergency braking at all." Anyway, the point was a general one - the computer hazard identification is very far from perfect at the moment, and benefits from a human spotting hazards that the automated system does not.

Recurecur 7y ago
Those reports were WRT full autonomous driving - not "assisted emergency braking". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_brake_assist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_brake_assist I see no mention of problems on the Wikipedia page. Do you know of any?

alistairSH 7y ago

One of many articles... https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-autopilot-why-crash-radar/ https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-autopilot-why-crash-radar/

Recurecur 7y ago
See above response.
- alistairSH 7y ago
  Emergency braking is part of autonomous driving, so ...? Anyways, my VW has assisted emergency braking. I've had opposite issues - water splashes across sensor and the car brakes for no good reason. Generally going through a large shallow puddle and moderate speed. Happened 2 or 3 times and now I disable when driving near the beach after rain.
  - Recurecur 7y ago
    "Anyways, my VW has assisted emergency braking. I've had opposite issues - water splashes across sensor and the car brakes for no good reason. Generally going through a large shallow puddle and moderate speed. Happened 2 or 3 times and now I disable when driving near the beach after rain." Your "issue" is essentially the system being extra safe - similar to slowing down when a bunch of water hits your windshield. Seems highly appropriate to me.
    - alistairSH 7y ago
      Except it's a full-on emergency brake reaction and liable to get me rear-ended. Per the initial discussion, there are places (and this is one) where a human is still MUCH better at assessing the situation and acting appropriately.
      - Recurecur 7y ago
        "Per the initial discussion, there are places (and this is one) where a human is still MUCH better at assessing the situation and acting appropriately." You've done nothing to support that assertion. "MUCH better at assessing the situation and acting appropriately" doesn't compensate for 10x slower reaction time. Nor does it account for the high percentage of time that humans are paying attention to something besides driving. Machine systems don't get distracted, at least. We'll agree to disagree, but anticipate fully autonomous cars sooner rather than later. ;-)
  - Recurecur 7y ago
    "Emergency braking is part of autonomous driving, so ...?" So, the Tesla issues involved not identifying objects in the field of regard correctly, and thus not steering appropriately. Brake systems weren't involved in either crash, IIRC. Assisted emergency braking is much more narrowly focused than full autonomous driving. It doesn't care what the object is, if it's solid, in front of the vehicle, and in it's path, the system will brake. These days it potentially has vision, sonar, lidar and radar to provide sensory input. That's a whole lot more information than a human can access.