9 ms·

What's interesting is that this poster, supposedly an FBI agent, is pushing an anti-Russia narrative in his other posts. Kind of ironic that the same organizati

What's interesting is that this poster, supposedly an FBI agent, is pushing an anti-Russia narrative in his other posts. Kind of ironic that the same organization that claims Russia is manipulating social media is doing exactly the same thing themselves.

luckylion 7y ago
I've rarely heard an argument from anyone that manipulating people, influencing election outcomes etc via social media is bad. It's bad because the Russians are doing it to them - it's okay if they are doing it to others. The same goes for military invasions under false pretenses, corrupting politicians, large scale spying and whatever else you can think off. Very few people have a moral problem with the actions, they have a "hey, this doesn't benefit me" problem.
- akhilcacharya 7y ago
  It’s fundamentally different for a hyperpower to do this versus a failed superpower. There is no comparison and as an American it’s in our best interest to utilize our cultural and military hegemony for the best of our interests. So yes, you’re right but I don’t see it as a bad thing at all.
  - luckylion 7y ago
    > So yes, you’re right but I don’t see it as a bad thing at all. Of course not, that's my point. You'll rarely hear those in power complain about the possibility to abuse power to oppress others ;)
  - stareatgoats 7y ago
    > it’s in our best interest to utilize our cultural and military hegemony for the best of our interests It is one thing to (through analysis) arrive at the conclusion that people and states don't live up to the ideals of the Golden Rule [0]. It is quite another thing to openly support the idea that the rich and powerful should use their power to further their own interests at the expense of others. Suffice to say that the latter puts you on a different trajectory than the collective body of religious and political thinking since time immemorial, western and eastern alike. Just sayin'. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule
  - echaozh 7y ago
    The mentality of bullies. The US really needs history to teach its people some lessons of humanity. Luck may turn away and smile on other countries, and experience more of these times and the people as a whole may start to learn.
- radcon 7y ago
  Not too long ago, we (America) were bragging about our ability to influence foreign elections[1]. Everyone seems to conveniently forget that whenever Russian "meddling" comes up these days. http://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19960715,00.html http://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19960715,00.html
  - moorhosj 7y ago
    Does Time magazine represent America in this comment?
    - dangerface 7y ago
      Yes, along with the rest of American media is how America is represented to non Americans.
      - moorhosj 7y ago
        American media runs the ideological spectrum (Mother Jones to The Atlantic to National Review to Fox News). They aren’t a unified voice, so that representation would include contradicting messages. It seems like people just choose the one that helps their strawman and labels that as “AMERICA”.
        luckylion 7y ago
        > American media runs the ideological spectrum Very few of them are openly against using the military, cultural, economic power the US has to force others to bend to their will. They may disagree on what direction to push others in, but they agree that they have the right (or even duty) to push them. Which is totally understandable. Very few people see themselves as villains, pretty much everybody wants to make the world a better place. What "better" means and how to get there, that's where they part ways.
        shakyshakyshaky 7y ago
        The Jacobin has always been a fan of calling out US imperialism.
- ptero 7y ago
  Trying to skew media (elections, opinions, policy) of other countries is something many (most? all?) governments did for centuries. And those activities were not particularly well hidden from citizens. I think earlier (30+ years ago), most of the rank and file citizens were isolated from such influence and few who were exposed to it, e.g. those doing business abroad, were immunized (by privilege, counter-propaganda or a feeling of a gun at their backs). I think current manipulation efforts makes elites panic only because those efforts can reach most of the country which makes old countermeasures ineffective. My 2c (I grew up in what is seen today as a totalitarian state).
throwawaymanbot 7y ago
Sounds to me like you are down with Russia doing it here. Pathetic.
ataturk 7y ago
Trust me, the fuckery is 99% US origin. They always blame someone else for what they themselves are up to. It's like a guilty conscience or something. This bs with Iran is the same way--hire the Mideast version of rednecks to steal a boat and attach some mines to some ships then blame Iran. All they do is lie and we let it all go on. Look up what the FBI to foment those two bozos into trying to shoot up the "Draw Mohammed" cartoon contest in Texas. Or Fast & Furious is another example of how rogue the US agencies are. They got caught doing that, too. I don't think they even care if they get caught because they have the ability to sow so much confusion and dissonance that people end up in a total fog.
sparkling 7y ago
But remember kids, "the russians" interfered with the elction.
- akhilcacharya 7y ago
  Except in the fact that they did as proved by multiple intelligence agencies (including the Dutch) and multiple infosec security companies?
  - sparkling 7y ago
    The US intelligence agencies that - like here - fake evidence to further their own agenda as well as their friendly foreign colleagues? Must be true then i guess. And as for a infosec company: showing that you found some russian IP or some strings originating from a Windows OS with ru_ru locale is not "evidence". It's making a educated guess at best. In fact, if you read thru some leaked NSA manuals on Wikileaks, the US intelligence agencies specifially teach their tech people how to use such techniques to plant false tracks.
    - akhilcacharya 7y ago
      You’re effectively projecting your own version of reality right now. The Dutch had security camera footage. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/01/dutch-intelligence-hacked-video-cameras-in-office-of-russians-who-hacked-dnc/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/01/dutch... All of this was documented in the Mueller report, the GRU indictments and the Stone indictment.
      - hallihax 7y ago
        It's all nonsense. The intelligence agencies are lying to you. https://steemit.com/steemit/@suzi3d/10-reasons-the-dutch-russia-hacking-story-is-fake-news https://steemit.com/steemit/@suzi3d/10-reasons-the-dutch-rus...
        7y ago
JamesBarney 7y ago
Sure they both fall under the category "trying to influence someone through social media". But so does a press release put out over Facebook, and lot of other completely innocuous actions. If we found out the FBI was systematically spending lots of money to influence our elections people would be pissed.
- 292355744930110 7y ago
  > If
- 4ntonius8lock 7y ago
  This comment seems to be ignoring the long and recurring history of the FBI and other government agencies in subverting, persecuting and destroying the lives of those who were peaceful members of left leaning political parties, basically anyone who identified as a communist or socialist... or who knew anyone who identified that way. Or actually, anyone whose political ideals contradicted American corporate interests. That includes in our country and other countries. This is not to mention the more controversial reality of the close collaboration between US intelligence agencies and the entertainment and education industries.
  - fao_ 7y ago
    Yes. Let's not forget that for a good portion of the 20th century the FBI not only explicitly worked against equality and ecology, but also explicitly funded fascist millitants, and domestic terrorism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
- misterprime 7y ago
  Strzok and Paige sound familiar at all? I think I'm spelling those right.
wp381640 7y ago
The issue with Russian interference isn't that they're doing it - it's that many Americans in power seem ok with it and some at the top even encourage it
- avar 7y ago
  The issue from the US side has also been that they're per-se doing it. Otherwise the US Senate wouldn't have imposed sanctions on Russia in (among other things) response to the 2016 election interference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections#Punitive_measures_imposed_on_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_20...

luckylion 7y ago

I've rarely heard an argument from anyone that manipulating people, influencing election outcomes etc via social media is bad. It's bad because the Russians are doing it to them - it's okay if they are doing it to others. The same goes for military invasions under false pretenses, corrupting politicians, large scale spying and whatever else you can think off. Very few people have a moral problem with the actions, they have a "hey, this doesn't benefit me" problem.

akhilcacharya 7y ago
It’s fundamentally different for a hyperpower to do this versus a failed superpower. There is no comparison and as an American it’s in our best interest to utilize our cultural and military hegemony for the best of our interests. So yes, you’re right but I don’t see it as a bad thing at all.
- luckylion 7y ago
  > So yes, you’re right but I don’t see it as a bad thing at all. Of course not, that's my point. You'll rarely hear those in power complain about the possibility to abuse power to oppress others ;)
- stareatgoats 7y ago
  > it’s in our best interest to utilize our cultural and military hegemony for the best of our interests It is one thing to (through analysis) arrive at the conclusion that people and states don't live up to the ideals of the Golden Rule [0]. It is quite another thing to openly support the idea that the rich and powerful should use their power to further their own interests at the expense of others. Suffice to say that the latter puts you on a different trajectory than the collective body of religious and political thinking since time immemorial, western and eastern alike. Just sayin'. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule
- echaozh 7y ago
  The mentality of bullies. The US really needs history to teach its people some lessons of humanity. Luck may turn away and smile on other countries, and experience more of these times and the people as a whole may start to learn.
radcon 7y ago
Not too long ago, we (America) were bragging about our ability to influence foreign elections[1]. Everyone seems to conveniently forget that whenever Russian "meddling" comes up these days. http://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19960715,00.html http://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19960715,00.html
- moorhosj 7y ago
  Does Time magazine represent America in this comment?
  - dangerface 7y ago
    Yes, along with the rest of American media is how America is represented to non Americans.
    - moorhosj 7y ago
      American media runs the ideological spectrum (Mother Jones to The Atlantic to National Review to Fox News). They aren’t a unified voice, so that representation would include contradicting messages. It seems like people just choose the one that helps their strawman and labels that as “AMERICA”.
      - luckylion 7y ago
        > American media runs the ideological spectrum Very few of them are openly against using the military, cultural, economic power the US has to force others to bend to their will. They may disagree on what direction to push others in, but they agree that they have the right (or even duty) to push them. Which is totally understandable. Very few people see themselves as villains, pretty much everybody wants to make the world a better place. What "better" means and how to get there, that's where they part ways.
        shakyshakyshaky 7y ago
        The Jacobin has always been a fan of calling out US imperialism.
ptero 7y ago
Trying to skew media (elections, opinions, policy) of other countries is something many (most? all?) governments did for centuries. And those activities were not particularly well hidden from citizens. I think earlier (30+ years ago), most of the rank and file citizens were isolated from such influence and few who were exposed to it, e.g. those doing business abroad, were immunized (by privilege, counter-propaganda or a feeling of a gun at their backs). I think current manipulation efforts makes elites panic only because those efforts can reach most of the country which makes old countermeasures ineffective. My 2c (I grew up in what is seen today as a totalitarian state).

throwawaymanbot 7y ago

Sounds to me like you are down with Russia doing it here. Pathetic.

ataturk 7y ago

Trust me, the fuckery is 99% US origin. They always blame someone else for what they themselves are up to. It's like a guilty conscience or something. This bs with Iran is the same way--hire the Mideast version of rednecks to steal a boat and attach some mines to some ships then blame Iran. All they do is lie and we let it all go on. Look up what the FBI to foment those two bozos into trying to shoot up the "Draw Mohammed" cartoon contest in Texas. Or Fast & Furious is another example of how rogue the US agencies are. They got caught doing that, too. I don't think they even care if they get caught because they have the ability to sow so much confusion and dissonance that people end up in a total fog.

sparkling 7y ago

But remember kids, "the russians" interfered with the elction.

akhilcacharya 7y ago
Except in the fact that they did as proved by multiple intelligence agencies (including the Dutch) and multiple infosec security companies?
- sparkling 7y ago
  The US intelligence agencies that - like here - fake evidence to further their own agenda as well as their friendly foreign colleagues? Must be true then i guess. And as for a infosec company: showing that you found some russian IP or some strings originating from a Windows OS with ru_ru locale is not "evidence". It's making a educated guess at best. In fact, if you read thru some leaked NSA manuals on Wikileaks, the US intelligence agencies specifially teach their tech people how to use such techniques to plant false tracks.
  - akhilcacharya 7y ago
    You’re effectively projecting your own version of reality right now. The Dutch had security camera footage. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/01/dutch-intelligence-hacked-video-cameras-in-office-of-russians-who-hacked-dnc/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/01/dutch... All of this was documented in the Mueller report, the GRU indictments and the Stone indictment.
    - hallihax 7y ago
      It's all nonsense. The intelligence agencies are lying to you. https://steemit.com/steemit/@suzi3d/10-reasons-the-dutch-russia-hacking-story-is-fake-news https://steemit.com/steemit/@suzi3d/10-reasons-the-dutch-rus...
      - 7y ago

JamesBarney 7y ago

Sure they both fall under the category "trying to influence someone through social media". But so does a press release put out over Facebook, and lot of other completely innocuous actions. If we found out the FBI was systematically spending lots of money to influence our elections people would be pissed.

292355744930110 7y ago
> If
4ntonius8lock 7y ago
This comment seems to be ignoring the long and recurring history of the FBI and other government agencies in subverting, persecuting and destroying the lives of those who were peaceful members of left leaning political parties, basically anyone who identified as a communist or socialist... or who knew anyone who identified that way. Or actually, anyone whose political ideals contradicted American corporate interests. That includes in our country and other countries. This is not to mention the more controversial reality of the close collaboration between US intelligence agencies and the entertainment and education industries.
- fao_ 7y ago
  Yes. Let's not forget that for a good portion of the 20th century the FBI not only explicitly worked against equality and ecology, but also explicitly funded fascist millitants, and domestic terrorism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
misterprime 7y ago
Strzok and Paige sound familiar at all? I think I'm spelling those right.

wp381640 7y ago

The issue with Russian interference isn't that they're doing it - it's that many Americans in power seem ok with it and some at the top even encourage it

avar 7y ago
The issue from the US side has also been that they're per-se doing it. Otherwise the US Senate wouldn't have imposed sanctions on Russia in (among other things) response to the 2016 election interference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections#Punitive_measures_imposed_on_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_20...