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Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: Where Is It?
- jgwil2 7y ago> Forensic examinations of Zaharie’s simulator by the FBI revealed that he experimented with a flight profile roughly matching that of MH370—a flight north around Indonesia followed by a long run to the south, ending in fuel exhaustion over the Indian Ocean. Malaysian investigators dismissed this flight profile as merely one of several hundred that the simulator had recorded. That is true, as far as it goes, which is not far enough. Victor Iannello, an engineer and entrepreneur in Roanoke, Virginia, who has become another prominent member of the Independent Group and has done extensive analysis of the simulated flight, underscores what the Malaysian investigators ignored. Of all the profiles extracted from the simulator, the one that matched MH370’s path was the only one that Zaharie did not run as a continuous flight—in other words, taking off on the simulator and letting the flight play out, hour after hour, until it reached the destination airport. Instead he advanced the flight manually in multiple stages, repeatedly jumping the flight forward and subtracting the fuel as necessary until it was gone. This seems as close to a smoking gun as we're ever likely to get.
- CardenB 7y agoIt is kind of funny that someone in Roanoke is doing extensive analysis on MH370
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- kevin_thibedeau 7y agoRoanoke, VA is not connected to the colony.
- rolltiide 7y agothat just doubles the irony
- solidsnack9000 7y agoThe reference here is to the Lost Colony of Roanoke Island, in present day Dare County, North Carolina. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roanoke_Colony#Lost_Colony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roanoke_Colony#Lost_Colony
- newsoul2019 7y agoAlthough I am quite familiar with Roanoke, VA. I didn't get that at first, thanks for pointing it out. I thought you were making some kind of redneck joke. Incidentally it is 343 miles from Roanoke VA to Roanoke Island, NC.
- rtkwe 7y agoWhen I was hearing that first reported it was much fuzzier and they only recovered small portions of the data for the flight which makes me much less certain of the 'he simulated the exact flight' theory. Edit: Found a source for my memory, it's from Lemino's pretty great video: [0] "the data recovered consists of 7 coordinates ... however it's not clear if the coordinates originate from the same flight session." [0] https://youtu.be/kd2KEHvK-q8?t=953 https://youtu.be/kd2KEHvK-q8?t=953
- makomk 7y agoThe part about how it was "only one that Zaharie did not run as a continuous flight" makes it sound like at some point they found evidence that the co-ordinates which supposedly made up his simulation of the exact flight couldn't have actually come from the same simulated flight - and took this as more proof that it was in fact evidence of him rehearsing for it.
- raverbashing 7y ago"Subtracting the fuel" is a bit weird. I think even with the fuel filed until the planned destination it would have not made it nowhere on that flight path. Also we have the last ping + some rough estimate of additional flight time (but minutes of uncertainty are already enough to have hundreds of kms of search radius)
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- CamperBob2 7y agoThis seems as close to a smoking gun as we're ever likely to get. One interesting counterargument is brought up in a rebuttal at https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-atlantics-william-langewiesche-dusts-off-discredited-conspiracy-theory-to-accuse-mh370-pilot-of-hijacking https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-atlantics-william-langewie... . The rebuttal piece mostly just flames Langewiesche, and it doesn't offer any support for any competing theories. But it does pose one question I haven't seen addressed. Why, if Zaharie wanted to commit suicide by flying into the middle of nowhere, didn't he turn right instead of left? His route took him through populated airspace for no apparent reason. If numerous authorities in multiple countries hadn't been asleep at the switch, there would have been no mystery at all about what happened.
- docker_up 7y agoMaybe he was hoping to get intercepted, not be completely ignored. That would make his last flight even more epic.
- Steko 7y ago> The rebuttal piece mostly just flames Langewiesche I would say it raises serious questions about the accuracy of the simulator Langewiesche relies on and his complete omission of the fact that the Malaysian government absolutely wanted to blame Zahierie, a fanatical supporter of the opposition party, but the evidence was pretty thin. < if Zaharie wanted to commit suicide by flying into the middle of nowhere, didn't he turn right instead of left? Which begs the bigger question of why not just fly the plane straight down into the ocean? The problem with the crazy suicide pilot theory has always been that it's become basically unfalsifiable. Plane went left? Suicide pilot wanted to go left. Plane turned right? Suicide pilot wanted to turn right. Plane turned left again? Suicide pilot must have had his reasons.
- Muromec 7y ago>Which begs the bigger question of why not just fly the plane straight down into the ocean? Probably pilot intended plane never to be found and blame never assigned to him. So it could be intentionally unfalsifiable.
- HelloMcFly 7y agoI had no particularly noteworthy interest in the topic beyond empathy for the families at the time. Yet I found this a compelling read. The descriptions and details made the whole thing pretty easy to follow.
- tptacek 7y agoLangewiesche is one of the great narrative journalists of the last 30 years; a contemporary and colleague of perhaps better-known writers like Mark Bowden (Blackhawk Down), but I think probably the best of them. It's worth tracking his previous stories down.
- mrpippy 7y agoWilliam Langewiesche is a pilot himself, and has written many other articles over the last 2 decades detailing accident investigations (among other things). As much as the technical details, he often explains the organizational and political circumstances that are just as interesting. Some that stick with me: the late-90s ValuJet and EgyptAir crashes, and the Space Shuttle Columbia. https://www.theatlantic.com/author/william-langewiesche https://www.theatlantic.com/author/william-langewiesche https://www.vanityfair.com/contributor/william-langewiesche https://www.vanityfair.com/contributor/william-langewiesche
- jgwil2 7y agoHe is my favorite author on the subject of aviation. Lots of great reads here. Two standouts for my money are "The Devil at 37,000 Feet" and "The Human Factor." https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2009/01/air_crash200901 https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2009/01/air_crash200901 https://www.vanityfair.com/news/business/2014/10/air-france-flight-447-crash https://www.vanityfair.com/news/business/2014/10/air-france-...
- bklyn11201 7y agoThe Turn: https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/langew/turn.htm https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/langew/turn.ht... Congo from the Cockpit: https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2007/07/congo-flights-africa-airlines/amp https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2007/07/congo-flights-afr...
- baruchthescribe 7y agoColumbia's Last Flight is his masterpiece IMO: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2003/11/columbias-last-flight/304204/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2003/11/columbi...
- IAmEveryone 7y ago“On the afternoon of last January 15, a flock of Canada geese flew about 3,000 feet above the Bronx in a loose echelon formation, tending to their own business as usual, with nothing special in mind. Much about those particular geese will never be known—for instance, where they came from, and where they were headed, and why—but it is likely that they were large, well fed, and self-satisfied. Evidently they were also fairly dumb. Their stupidity cannot be held against them, since they were just birds, after all, but geese are said to be adaptive creatures, and it is hard not to think that they should have had better sense than to go wandering through New York City’s skies” […] ”There was also an official collision with a fish, though the fish was in the grasp of an osprey at the time.”
- baruchthescribe 7y agoDiego Garcia, Rothschilds, ARM patents. Just for the record as I know no-one will believe me.
- sctb 7y agoYou've been breaking the guidelines quite a bit. Could you please review them and start posting more substantively? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- baruchthescribe 7y agoSure. In the meantime, I believe the relevant xkcd - because there's always a relevant xckd - is 137.
- AWildC182 7y agoI don't think it's in the atlantic.
- SolaceQuantum 7y agoAmazing prose here. The description of the death of the passengers, and the final moments of within the cockpit before the plane ran out of fuel, were chilling in their capacity to imply a peaceful bliss in the wake of hundreds of needless lost lives.
- dillondoyle 7y agoI had the same thought! Something about how the author describes the rush of air, the security and known 'homeliness' of the cockpit resonates with me. Im sitting in airport lounge about to hop on a transatlantic. Dreaming of drifting to sleep up in the air and never waking up is a bit scary but also peaceful (I am not suicidal, thanks). travel is definitely an easy escape and repetitious in my life. I like routine and always book the same seat, same flight to get to Europe, etc. There's comfort there for me and I really identify the way the author describes the peacefulness of a nighttime long haul flight.
- ziddoap 7y agoThere is a really well put together video[1] by a YouTuber, who goes by the name of Lemmino, covering this topic (among others). I highly suggest it if this story interests you! And if you like his style, his Cicada 3301 video is also a fascinating watch. [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd2KEHvK-q8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd2KEHvK-q8
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- LandR 7y agoThat Cicada stuff is crazy!
- warp 7y agoI was reading about ADS-B, FlightAware and Aireon [1] earlier. Apparently they've completed a network of satellites in January 2019 and can now monitor (ADS-B equipped) aircraft anywhere over earth? Does anyone know more about how this works, does that mean we will never have a MH370-like situation again because nowadays aircraft can be tracked much better? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aireon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aireon
- rtkwe 7y agoDepends on how it's set up precisely, ADS-B will still require power from somewhere. At some point in MH370's flight all the power systems were turned off for a bit so unless it's connected to it's own battery and ADS-B would still be disconnected.
- saluki 7y agoy, it should be required for all airliners to have a tracking system that can not be disabled from inside the plane, and has a backup power system. For situations like this, hijackings, etc. Also seems like streaming black box data and even cock pit recordings would already be something that is standard. As a backup/additional data to the physical black boxes. That could be accessed right away or even in real time.
- erobbins 7y agoMaybe, but having an electronic system on an airliner that can't be disabled could potentially lead to a fire that can't be extinguished and that's why you can shut down every system as the pilot.
- blytt 7y agoIt seems reasonable to transmit as much info, including who initiated the shutdown, at that point so that you can at least attempt to attribute the reason the transponder went offline.
- chillaxtian 7y agoCan someone post a TL;DR? Can't be assed to read this long form article.
- bidkat 7y agoPlane crashed, most likely by the hands of the pilot.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- NelsonMinar 7y agoLangewiesche's a great author but this article doesn't add much in the way of new information from all the writing of the past three years. One off the record source about the pilot's mental state, that's about it. I happen to agree with his speculative conclusion, deliberate action by the pilot, but there's not really anything significant and new here to support it.
- apendleton 7y agoI'm not sure that was the point? I imagine given that you know enough to be able to make that claim that you've followed coverage of this incident pretty closely. As someone who hasn't, and mostly came at it from an "oh yeah, that thing, whatever ended up happening there?" perspective, I found this article to be an engaging and informative summary of what has happened in the years since and what we now know.
- hurrdurr2 7y agoYeah, this was definitely the case for me. This article summarized all the things that I was wondering about over the years regarding this tragedy. I also agree that the speculative conclusion reached at the end is the most likely scenario, e.g., pilot suicide with everyone on-board.
- CathedralBorrow 7y agoNot every article needs to add new information, some can provide value in summarizing the current information in a digestible way.
- kelnos 7y agoI thought it was valuable. I'd on-and-off casually followed news of the disappearance for months afterward, but I don't think I'd read anything before that ties everything known together. The writing was also excellent and gripping.
- fareesh 7y agoI remember watching the American news media go crazy over this airplane for around 1 month every night. The CNN anchor Don Lemon asked one of the 6 guests on his panel whether it was possible that the plane had been sucked into a black hole.
- llao 7y agoDear god, you were not joking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpVd7k1Uw6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpVd7k1Uw6A
- i386 7y agoIf I were the guest I would have said yes and seen how long I could keep that interview going
- isostatic 7y agoA small black hole would destroy our entire universe apparently
- mc32 7y agoWell, it depends if they are speaking colloquially or not. If our “universe” is our Sun’s solar system, then yes...
- mehrdadn 7y agoCan't help but wonder if he mixed up black holes with the colloquial "air pockets" or something.
- catacombs 7y agoIt was actually Oceanic Flight 815 come to life.
- airstrike 7y agoI always thought Don Lemon was an idiot. Thanks for giving me the final proof I needed. FWIW, I'm neither American nor a Republican. I just really think the guy is an idiot.
- mbostleman 7y ago>>as soon as MH370 disappeared from secondary radar, it turned sharply to the southwest, flew back across the Malay Peninsula, and banked around the island of Penang. From there it flew northwest up the Strait of Malacca and out across the Andaman Sea, where it faded beyond radar range into obscurity. That part of the flight took more than an hour to accomplish and suggested that this was not a standard case of a hijacking.>> What about this suggests that this was not a standard case of hijacking?
- jgwil2 7y agoFrom the article: > Was this a hijacking? A hijacking is the “third party” solution favored in the official report. It is the least painful explanation for anyone in authority that night. It has immense problems, however. The main one is that the cockpit door was fortified, electrically bolted, and surveilled by a video feed that the pilots could see. Also, less than two minutes passed between Zaharie’s casual “good night” to the Kuala Lumpur controller and the start of the diversion, with the attendant loss of the transponder signal. How would hijackers have known to make their move precisely during the handoff to Vietnamese air traffic control, and then gained access so quickly and smoothly that neither of the pilots had a chance to transmit a distress call? It is possible of course that the hijackers were known to the pilots—that they were invited into the cockpit—but even that does not explain the lack of a radio transmission, particularly during the hand-flown turn away from Beijing. Both of the control yokes had transmitter switches, within the merest finger reach, and some signal could have been sent in the moments before an attempted takeover. Furthermore, every one of the passengers and cabin-crew members has been investigated and cleared of suspicion by teams of Malaysian and Chinese investigators aided by the FBI. The quality of that police work is open to question, but it was thorough enough to have uncovered the identities of two Iranians who were traveling under false names with stolen passports—seeking, however, nothing more nefarious than political asylum in Germany. It is possible that stowaways—by definition unrecorded on the airplane’s manifest—had hidden in the equipment bay. If so, they would have had access to two circuit breakers that, if pulled, would have unbolted the cockpit door. But that scenario has problems, too. The bolts click loudly when they open—an unambiguous sound that would have been familiar to the pilots. The hijackers would then have had to open a galley-floor hatch from below, climb a short ladder, evade notice by the cabin crew, evade the surveillance video, and enter the cockpit before either of the pilots transmitted a distress call. It is unlikely that this could have happened, just as it is unlikely that a flight attendant held hostage could have used the door keypad to allow sudden entry without firing off a warning. Furthermore, what would the purpose be of a hijacking? Money? Politics? Publicity? An act of war? A terrorist attack? The intricate seven-hour profile of MH370’s deviation into oblivion fits none of these scenarios. And no one has claimed responsibility for the act. Anonymity is not consistent with any of these motives.
- markbnj 7y agoI enjoyed this write up by Langewiesche, but the one thing that bothered me was the credence lent to the depressurization event without disclosing what if any evidence there is that it happened? Is there some? In the article he simply says "circumstances suggest" by which I assume he means the climb to 40k feet.
- kelnos 7y agoShutting down most/all of the electrical systems on the plane suggests depressurization. Also it just makes sense to do so; a plane full of dead people can't engage in heroics to save the day. And he might have seen it as the humane thing to do, rather than leave people in fear for hours up to the actual crash. But agreed that there's no hard evidence for this, or even for much of the entire story. Just a bunch of circumstantial evidence that suggests a lot.
- Lazare 7y agoThere's a fairly obvious argument here: 1) It seems pretty clear the plane took hours to crash 2) If the cabin was full of healthy, alive passengers, they could have done something during that time. (It's not a certainty, but it certainly seems plausible. Armored cockpit doors aren't meant to withstand dozens of super motivated people, including cabin crew, with literally hours of time on their hands.) 3) Apparently nothing was done, so apparently it wasn't full of healthy, alive passengers. 4) Although a number of things could have killed or incapacitated the passengers in the cabin, depressurisation is fast, reliable, under the control of the pilot, and doesn't require any elaborate assumptions about third parties or deus ex machina. There are other possibilities that have been discussed elsewhere (poisoned food, perhaps), but Occam's razor suggests depressurisation. I think that's what the author was getting at with the "circumstances suggest". Given what is known about the plane, depressurisation is the most logical explanation for one of the mysteries.
- tptacek 7y agoDepressurization also circumstantially connects with the otherwise unexplained climb to 40,000 feet, and with the disconnection and reconnection of the electrical system.
- franzb 7y agoBy the same author, one of the most terrifying story I've ever come across: A Sea Story https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/05/a-sea-story/302940/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/05/a-sea-s...