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So should LSD and ectasy/MDMA, cocaine and heroin. I don't use these drugs but it's a good thing for our society if they are available cheap and clean to peopl

So should LSD and ectasy/MDMA, cocaine and heroin. I don't use these drugs but it's a good thing for our society if they are available cheap and clean to people who want/need them. They should be sold behind the counter from pharmacies and not allowed to be advertised, same as cigarettes in Australia. When drugs are illegal it results in crime and health issues.

mcv 7y ago
They should probably be regulated, but treating them as a health issue seems like a far healthier idea than criminalising them. I believe Portugal did exactly that and got very good results. It does require a lot of education and responsibility on the part of pharmacists and physicians, though. If I understand correctly, opiates are illegal in the US yet can be legally prescribed as part of painkillers, and with corporations pushing them hard, this has resulted in a bigger opiate addiction crisis than ever. That's clearly not the right way to do it.
- TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
  It's the right way to do it if you're more interested in making money than helping people. Drugs aren't criminalised to help addicts. Drugs are criminalised to maximise profits. The US and British establishments have centuries-old links to the drug trade, the jail trade, and the "legal" opiate trade, and decriminalisation would create significant financial inconvenience. This doubtless sounds wildly implausible to anyone unfamiliar with the evidence. But there's ample historical record of involvement, either direct or strongly implied - from the days of the Opium Wars, to the curious history of cocaine smuggling during Iran-Contra, to the fact that opium production increased threefold after the US invasion of Afghanistan.
IMTDb 7y ago
The article talks about decriminalization, not legalization. Decriminalization means that you are still not allowed to sell the product in a legitimate business. If you get caught with it, instead of going in front of a judge - possibly getting a criminal record and jail time - you will get a fine and no record. This lowers the priority for the police and prosecutor to track you down. I think the US should really start thinking about decriminalizing the use of all drugs. It's crazy to destroy live for use of psychoactive substances. But legalization is a whole other story, the opioid crisis would look pale in comparison to the aftermath of selling high quality MDMA/Cocaine/Heroin with a doctors note.
- jmalkin 7y ago
  I believe it's Portugal that has very successfully triaged decriminalisation of many or all drugs
- tathougies 7y ago
  > It's crazy to destroy live for use of psychoactive substances No, it's not. Those who purchase drugs directly fund illegal gangs and cartels, who kill, maim, and torture people. Over the course of years of drug use, drug users have likely funded dozens of murders, mutilations, wars, etc, for nothing other than personal pleasure. It's fine to think drugs should be decriminalized, but to claim it's a victimless crime or isn't destructive, is simply ignoring reality.
  - tempguy9999 7y ago
    >> It's crazy to destroy live for use of psychoactive substances >No, it's not. So it's acceptable to destroy lives for use of psychoactive substances? I don't think you meant that exactly, I guess. > Those who purchase drugs directly fund illegal gangs and cartels If the problem is their illegality then perhaps legalising drugs will ergo stop funding them. Just crying 'illegal' means nothing if their very illegality is the problem, that the laws are unjust, such as the all-too-legal apartheid in south africa. If it is then legalise. If there's more that's causing the problem then we need to pin that down, but 'illegal' alone is not - IMO - enough.
    - tathougies 7y ago
      If by 'destroy lives' you mean duly punish those who willingly and materially support murder, torture, and lawlessness for the sake of their addiction, yes. > If the problem is their illegality then perhaps legalising drugs will ergo stop funding them. I used to believe this, but California's experience in Marijuana legalization and the subsequent wave of terror in Humuboldt county indicate that gangs are not interested in becoming legitimate businesses. Two things happen: real businesses set up and are threatened by gang violence and gangs set up seemingly legitimate fronts that continue to funnel money. > Just crying 'illegal' means nothing if their very illegality is the problem, that the laws are unjust, such as the all-too-legal apartheid in south africa. But the laws are not unjust, it is a well accepted legal reality that governments the world over have a right to control substances, especially drugs. There are many drugs you cannot receive without a prescription and most people believe this is not only ethically sound but ethically necessary. Regardless, buying drugs from people who you know will use the money for drug wars (pretty much every illegal drug today) is still morally wrong, independent of the state of the law. If you chose to buy your hamburgers from drug lords, I'd think you guilty of the same thing.
mymythisisthis 7y ago
Also, without access to these drugs people resort to sniffing glue, gas, and nail polish. Basically leading to brain damage.
- tathougies 7y ago
  Meh, one dose of LSD can lead to permanent brain damage too, so..
  - cultofmetatron 7y ago
    comparing the brain damage from lsd to sniffing nailpolish is laughable. Plenty of people have done lsd in college and gone on to live productive effective lives. I can't say the same for people addicted to nail polish...
    - tathougies 7y ago
      LSD can literally induce schizophrenia which is IMO worse than the effects of nail polish.
      - htmk 7y ago
        Arguably on people that were already predisposed, and those who are predisposed to schizophrenia shouldn't touch psychedelics.
        tathougies 7y ago
        How do you know if you are predisposed? Even family history can be hard to figure out and detangle
  - LocalH 7y ago
    Pretty sure that's a myth

mcv 7y ago

They should probably be regulated, but treating them as a health issue seems like a far healthier idea than criminalising them. I believe Portugal did exactly that and got very good results. It does require a lot of education and responsibility on the part of pharmacists and physicians, though. If I understand correctly, opiates are illegal in the US yet can be legally prescribed as part of painkillers, and with corporations pushing them hard, this has resulted in a bigger opiate addiction crisis than ever. That's clearly not the right way to do it.

TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
It's the right way to do it if you're more interested in making money than helping people. Drugs aren't criminalised to help addicts. Drugs are criminalised to maximise profits. The US and British establishments have centuries-old links to the drug trade, the jail trade, and the "legal" opiate trade, and decriminalisation would create significant financial inconvenience. This doubtless sounds wildly implausible to anyone unfamiliar with the evidence. But there's ample historical record of involvement, either direct or strongly implied - from the days of the Opium Wars, to the curious history of cocaine smuggling during Iran-Contra, to the fact that opium production increased threefold after the US invasion of Afghanistan.

IMTDb 7y ago

The article talks about decriminalization, not legalization. Decriminalization means that you are still not allowed to sell the product in a legitimate business. If you get caught with it, instead of going in front of a judge - possibly getting a criminal record and jail time - you will get a fine and no record. This lowers the priority for the police and prosecutor to track you down. I think the US should really start thinking about decriminalizing the use of all drugs. It's crazy to destroy live for use of psychoactive substances. But legalization is a whole other story, the opioid crisis would look pale in comparison to the aftermath of selling high quality MDMA/Cocaine/Heroin with a doctors note.

jmalkin 7y ago
I believe it's Portugal that has very successfully triaged decriminalisation of many or all drugs
tathougies 7y ago
> It's crazy to destroy live for use of psychoactive substances No, it's not. Those who purchase drugs directly fund illegal gangs and cartels, who kill, maim, and torture people. Over the course of years of drug use, drug users have likely funded dozens of murders, mutilations, wars, etc, for nothing other than personal pleasure. It's fine to think drugs should be decriminalized, but to claim it's a victimless crime or isn't destructive, is simply ignoring reality.
- tempguy9999 7y ago
  >> It's crazy to destroy live for use of psychoactive substances >No, it's not. So it's acceptable to destroy lives for use of psychoactive substances? I don't think you meant that exactly, I guess. > Those who purchase drugs directly fund illegal gangs and cartels If the problem is their illegality then perhaps legalising drugs will ergo stop funding them. Just crying 'illegal' means nothing if their very illegality is the problem, that the laws are unjust, such as the all-too-legal apartheid in south africa. If it is then legalise. If there's more that's causing the problem then we need to pin that down, but 'illegal' alone is not - IMO - enough.
  - tathougies 7y ago
    If by 'destroy lives' you mean duly punish those who willingly and materially support murder, torture, and lawlessness for the sake of their addiction, yes. > If the problem is their illegality then perhaps legalising drugs will ergo stop funding them. I used to believe this, but California's experience in Marijuana legalization and the subsequent wave of terror in Humuboldt county indicate that gangs are not interested in becoming legitimate businesses. Two things happen: real businesses set up and are threatened by gang violence and gangs set up seemingly legitimate fronts that continue to funnel money. > Just crying 'illegal' means nothing if their very illegality is the problem, that the laws are unjust, such as the all-too-legal apartheid in south africa. But the laws are not unjust, it is a well accepted legal reality that governments the world over have a right to control substances, especially drugs. There are many drugs you cannot receive without a prescription and most people believe this is not only ethically sound but ethically necessary. Regardless, buying drugs from people who you know will use the money for drug wars (pretty much every illegal drug today) is still morally wrong, independent of the state of the law. If you chose to buy your hamburgers from drug lords, I'd think you guilty of the same thing.

mymythisisthis 7y ago

Also, without access to these drugs people resort to sniffing glue, gas, and nail polish. Basically leading to brain damage.

tathougies 7y ago
Meh, one dose of LSD can lead to permanent brain damage too, so..
- cultofmetatron 7y ago
  comparing the brain damage from lsd to sniffing nailpolish is laughable. Plenty of people have done lsd in college and gone on to live productive effective lives. I can't say the same for people addicted to nail polish...
  - tathougies 7y ago
    LSD can literally induce schizophrenia which is IMO worse than the effects of nail polish.
    - htmk 7y ago
      Arguably on people that were already predisposed, and those who are predisposed to schizophrenia shouldn't touch psychedelics.
      - tathougies 7y ago
        How do you know if you are predisposed? Even family history can be hard to figure out and detangle
- LocalH 7y ago
  Pretty sure that's a myth