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Note that ethanol, and a host of other mind-altering substances, should also be avoided until neurobiological adulthood (approximately 26): https://www.ncbi.nlm

by Donald 7y ago

Note that ethanol, and a host of other mind-altering substances, should also be avoided until neurobiological adulthood (approximately 26): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4669962/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4669962/ For alcohol, neurological effects can be observed in those who consume as little as 21 drinks per week (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9500305 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9500305). Your brain is just a bunch of electrically powered neurons swimming in a chemical bath - it's surprising how little of a substance over a regular time period can have an effect.

shadowoflight 7y ago
> as little as 21 drinks per week That is an incredible amount of alcohol as a minimum. Was that a typo, or does it really take that much to see significant negative effects?
- paulcole 7y ago
  It’s not that crazy. Mimosa for breakfast, martini for lunch, tipple during the work day, and wine with dinner. That plus going out to restaurant/country club/church on the weekend and it starts to add up. Most people in such social circles have to be at 30-35 drinks a week and that’s not even including any sort of special celebrations.
  - LIV2 7y ago
    That's called being an alcoholic
    - paulcole 7y ago
      Didn’t know you had an HN account, Dad.
  - TylerE 7y ago
    Actually it's even less than that, as the "standard" drink is a rather conservative measure - 14g of 100% alcohol, or roughly on can of 5% beer, or 1.5oz of 40% liquor. Many cocktails could easily be 3 or 4 "drinks". Which still isn't saying 21 "standard" drinks a week isn't a fair amount, but it's not that crazy. For instance, say you go out on a Friday and have 5 pints of an 8% IPA over the course of the evening. That's 10.4 standard drinks.
  - kortilla 7y ago
    That is crazy. It’s the textbook definition of alcoholism.
    - paulcole 7y ago
      That’s pretty offensive. Some people just live a different lifestyle.
      - gnaritas 7y ago
        That lifestyle has a well known name, it's called alcoholism.
      - shadowoflight 7y ago
        I cannot for the life of me tell if you’re being sarcastic or not, but in case you’re not: There is no subculture in which 21 servings of alcohol per week is not alcoholism, with the exception of alcoholics who are in denial.
  - antisthenes 7y ago
    > Mimosa for breakfast, martini for lunch, tipple during the work day, and wine with dinner. This is not typical of a normal working adult. I don't care what social circles you're a part of, unless it's some weird Instagram socialite promoting alcoholic beverages. I'm sure there are social circles where eating 5000 calories a day is considered normal too. Doesn't mean we should normalize it or pretend it's healthy.
- jetrink 7y ago
  Keep in mind that a drink is defined as 14g of alcohol. A drink of wine is four to five fluid ounces, but most people pour much more than that when they have a glass at home. It's similar with beer. A 12oz bottle of 5% ABV beer is a drink, but many craft beers are 7-10%. It's easy to have a couple of beers or glasses of wine and have 3-4 drinks in the process.
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > It's easy to have a couple of beers or glasses of wine and have 3-4 drinks in the process. Yes and even drinking that quantity of high ABV beer or large glasses of wine that you describe and you'd still have to do it every day of the week to hit 21 drinks a week. It is, as suggested upthread, an incredible amount of alcohol to describe with “as little as”.
NegativeLatency 7y ago
21 drinks a week seems like a lot?
- porknubbins 7y ago
  Yes, I can easily hit 1 maybe 2 a day without noticing but 3 is significant. For example most restaurants try to sell you two drinks per meal I’ve noticed. And I don’t drink every day, so miss a day and you have to drink 6, thats a binge/hangover for me.
- tonyarkles 7y ago
  It is a lot, but also a relatively easy number for e.g. a college student to exceed. While looking back I can see it wasn’t healthy... nachos and a couple beer on Tuesday night after our long engineering lab, and 3 or 4 mini-pitchers (3oz) at the bar on Friday and Saturday night pretty quickly adds up to, say, 27 drinks in a week. I was perfectly functional (minus Saturday and Sunday mornings where I’d sleep in until 11 or noon), passed all my classes, even made the Dean’s list. Definitely not recommended, but not unheard of. I have a much healthier relationship with booze now, and I’d be broke if I drank that much of the good stuff :)
- dagw 7y ago
  As someone who used to drink that much, Yes!
whycombagator 7y ago
A lot of people are saying 21 drinks a week is a lot. While it's 21 more than I have a week these days, I've gone stretches in my younger years with several beers a night. Easily drinking 21 a week. 21+ drinks per week is 2 nights out for some people.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > A lot of people are saying 21 drinks a week is a lot. Because it is a lot. > While it's 21 more than I have a week these days, I've gone stretches in my younger years with several beers a night. Easily drinking 21 a week. So...you used to drink a lot. What's your point? > 21+ drinks per week is 2 nights out for some people. Yes, some people are very heavy drinkers. Again, what's your point?
  - whycombagator 7y ago
    > What's your point? That in my experience, for youngsters, 21 drinks a week isn’t a lot. > Again, what’s your point? Please see above. I’d wager a significant (20% or so) portion of youth (< 25) drink 21+ per week semi regularly. That’s relevant to the comment I was replying to, and the studies it references. Now that I’ve clarified things, what is your point?

by Donald 7y ago

shadowoflight 7y ago

> as little as 21 drinks per week That is an incredible amount of alcohol as a minimum. Was that a typo, or does it really take that much to see significant negative effects?

paulcole 7y ago
It’s not that crazy. Mimosa for breakfast, martini for lunch, tipple during the work day, and wine with dinner. That plus going out to restaurant/country club/church on the weekend and it starts to add up. Most people in such social circles have to be at 30-35 drinks a week and that’s not even including any sort of special celebrations.
- LIV2 7y ago
  That's called being an alcoholic
  - paulcole 7y ago
    Didn’t know you had an HN account, Dad.
- TylerE 7y ago
  Actually it's even less than that, as the "standard" drink is a rather conservative measure - 14g of 100% alcohol, or roughly on can of 5% beer, or 1.5oz of 40% liquor. Many cocktails could easily be 3 or 4 "drinks". Which still isn't saying 21 "standard" drinks a week isn't a fair amount, but it's not that crazy. For instance, say you go out on a Friday and have 5 pints of an 8% IPA over the course of the evening. That's 10.4 standard drinks.
- kortilla 7y ago
  That is crazy. It’s the textbook definition of alcoholism.
  - paulcole 7y ago
    That’s pretty offensive. Some people just live a different lifestyle.
    - gnaritas 7y ago
      That lifestyle has a well known name, it's called alcoholism.
    - shadowoflight 7y ago
      I cannot for the life of me tell if you’re being sarcastic or not, but in case you’re not: There is no subculture in which 21 servings of alcohol per week is not alcoholism, with the exception of alcoholics who are in denial.
- antisthenes 7y ago
  > Mimosa for breakfast, martini for lunch, tipple during the work day, and wine with dinner. This is not typical of a normal working adult. I don't care what social circles you're a part of, unless it's some weird Instagram socialite promoting alcoholic beverages. I'm sure there are social circles where eating 5000 calories a day is considered normal too. Doesn't mean we should normalize it or pretend it's healthy.
jetrink 7y ago
Keep in mind that a drink is defined as 14g of alcohol. A drink of wine is four to five fluid ounces, but most people pour much more than that when they have a glass at home. It's similar with beer. A 12oz bottle of 5% ABV beer is a drink, but many craft beers are 7-10%. It's easy to have a couple of beers or glasses of wine and have 3-4 drinks in the process.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > It's easy to have a couple of beers or glasses of wine and have 3-4 drinks in the process. Yes and even drinking that quantity of high ABV beer or large glasses of wine that you describe and you'd still have to do it every day of the week to hit 21 drinks a week. It is, as suggested upthread, an incredible amount of alcohol to describe with “as little as”.

NegativeLatency 7y ago

21 drinks a week seems like a lot?

porknubbins 7y ago
Yes, I can easily hit 1 maybe 2 a day without noticing but 3 is significant. For example most restaurants try to sell you two drinks per meal I’ve noticed. And I don’t drink every day, so miss a day and you have to drink 6, thats a binge/hangover for me.
tonyarkles 7y ago
It is a lot, but also a relatively easy number for e.g. a college student to exceed. While looking back I can see it wasn’t healthy... nachos and a couple beer on Tuesday night after our long engineering lab, and 3 or 4 mini-pitchers (3oz) at the bar on Friday and Saturday night pretty quickly adds up to, say, 27 drinks in a week. I was perfectly functional (minus Saturday and Sunday mornings where I’d sleep in until 11 or noon), passed all my classes, even made the Dean’s list. Definitely not recommended, but not unheard of. I have a much healthier relationship with booze now, and I’d be broke if I drank that much of the good stuff :)
dagw 7y ago
As someone who used to drink that much, Yes!

whycombagator 7y ago

A lot of people are saying 21 drinks a week is a lot. While it's 21 more than I have a week these days, I've gone stretches in my younger years with several beers a night. Easily drinking 21 a week. 21+ drinks per week is 2 nights out for some people.

dragonwriter 7y ago
> A lot of people are saying 21 drinks a week is a lot. Because it is a lot. > While it's 21 more than I have a week these days, I've gone stretches in my younger years with several beers a night. Easily drinking 21 a week. So...you used to drink a lot. What's your point? > 21+ drinks per week is 2 nights out for some people. Yes, some people are very heavy drinkers. Again, what's your point?
- whycombagator 7y ago
  > What's your point? That in my experience, for youngsters, 21 drinks a week isn’t a lot. > Again, what’s your point? Please see above. I’d wager a significant (20% or so) portion of youth (< 25) drink 21+ per week semi regularly. That’s relevant to the comment I was replying to, and the studies it references. Now that I’ve clarified things, what is your point?