5 ms·

While this article alleges that addiction is the root cause of homelessness, it makes no effort to prove that claim. That there is correlation between the two i

While this article alleges that addiction is the root cause of homelessness, it makes no effort to prove that claim. That there is correlation between the two is clear, but claiming that addiction is the root cause of homelessness of the west coast is just fear-mongering. Determining root cause is important to finding the right solution. Further cracking down on homeless people will just transfer them from the streets to jails, where they will cost the taxpayers exorbitant amounts of money (and if they're in a private prison, create profit for private interests), while failing to get people back on their feet when they are eventually let go. > no city on the West Coast has a solution for homeless opioid addicts While Utah isn't technically the West coast, how does the author's claim hold up in the face of the resounding success of their efforts to reduce chronic homelessness (down 91% in a decade while saving the government 50%)? Does this proven solution fit with his root cause model? See: https://www.npr.org/2015/12/10/459100751/utah-reduced-chronic-homelessness-by-91-percent-heres-how https://www.npr.org/2015/12/10/459100751/utah-reduced-chroni...

Gimpei 7y ago
Not saying I disagree with you, but west coast cities do have temperate climates that I would think attract more of the chronically homeless. I'd much rather live on the street in LA in the winter than SLC.
- lazyasciiart 7y ago
  They also have booming economies. People move to successful big cities for work, where they have no existing safety net. Then they can't find a job fast enough, or get sick, or get divorced and start drinking, and become homeless. These are the vast majority of "not from here" homeless people in Seattle. The chronically homeless tend to be old people in pretty bad shape who don't move cities for the weather. So is the answer that people born in economically ruined rural areas should be locked out of big cities? Only allowed to stay there so long as they have enough money? People arguing you shouldn't be able to get benefits somewhere you're not "from" are arguing for a system that entrenches the political and economic divide between rural and urban Americans.
- pizlonator 7y ago
  Or maybe the fact that there has been a population explosion on the west coast due to tech combined with a retarded attitude towards urban development has resulted in more people than available bedrooms. Ima go with that explanation since it is a lot simpler.
ajhurliman 7y ago
There are studies that back up this claim, though[0]. From the paper: “Labor force participation has fallen more in areas where relatively more opioid pain medication is prescribed” [0] https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/1_krueger.pdf https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/1_krueg...
- arkades 7y ago
  Very possibly reversing causality. That Brookings paper itself states that the economic downturn predates the 'opioid epidemic'. It's based on data that adds up to little more than, well, what you quoted - with little effort to prove which direction the causal link runs, although the paper seems to take for granted it's the drugs causing the labor participation reduction. The author, describing his assumptions in building his model (pg 36), states "This is a big leap," - language I've never actually seen in an academic paper before. It's usually the sort of thing that peer reviewers say behind their hands before throwing barbs at you.
mulmen 7y ago
I was a lot more compassionate 5 years ago when I thought Seattle could solve its homelessness problem. Now that it’s clear we can’t I just feel bad for everyone involved. There are entire parts of my city (parks, downtown) I can’t even visit because of the homeless. Maybe someone who falls on hard times doesn’t deserve jail time but if you steal or break any other laws you need to face the music, just like everyone else. The homeless deserve dignity and respect but so do the rest of us, I feel like that has been forgotten.
- kerkeslager 7y ago
  > There are entire parts of my city (parks, downtown) I can’t even visit because of the homeless. Maybe someone who falls on hard times doesn’t deserve jail time but if you steal or break any other laws you need to face the music, just like everyone else. > The homeless deserve dignity and respect but so do the rest of us, I feel like that has been forgotten. How mulmen isn't getting dignity and respect: he's afraid to visit parts of his city (parks, downtown). How homeless people aren't getting dignity and respect: sleeping outside in the very places mulmen is afraid to visit, having to beg for food. To be honest, even if anyone had forgotten about how inconvenient homelessness is for those who live in homes and don't have to go near areas with homeless, I'd be pretty okay with us forgetting that.
  - mulmen 7y ago
    The “areas mulmen is afraid to go” include my daily commute and bus stops. They are very much places I visit frequently. Even if they were not places I frequently visit it would still not be acceptable. The current state of homelessness in Seattle sucks for everyone. Regular citizens of the city are rightfully getting fed up by the lack of progress. That’s important because the only way we can solve it is with the support of the public. Attacking me isn’t doing anything to help. We have law-abiding citizens getting stabbed walking down the street. Trash, human waste and used needles litter parks and public spaces. It’s not a safe place to be and that is not acceptable.
    - kerkeslager 7y ago
Thorrez 7y ago
>Further cracking down on homeless people will just transfer them from the streets to jails, where they will cost the taxpayers exorbitant amounts of money (and if they're in a private prison, create profit for private interests), while failing to get people back on their feet when they are eventually let go. It doesn't seem the article is advocating for a crackdown. The article seems to advocate for cities "to provide access to on-demand detox, rehabilitation, and recovery programs that might help people overcome their addictions."

Gimpei 7y ago

Not saying I disagree with you, but west coast cities do have temperate climates that I would think attract more of the chronically homeless. I'd much rather live on the street in LA in the winter than SLC.

lazyasciiart 7y ago
They also have booming economies. People move to successful big cities for work, where they have no existing safety net. Then they can't find a job fast enough, or get sick, or get divorced and start drinking, and become homeless. These are the vast majority of "not from here" homeless people in Seattle. The chronically homeless tend to be old people in pretty bad shape who don't move cities for the weather. So is the answer that people born in economically ruined rural areas should be locked out of big cities? Only allowed to stay there so long as they have enough money? People arguing you shouldn't be able to get benefits somewhere you're not "from" are arguing for a system that entrenches the political and economic divide between rural and urban Americans.
pizlonator 7y ago
Or maybe the fact that there has been a population explosion on the west coast due to tech combined with a retarded attitude towards urban development has resulted in more people than available bedrooms. Ima go with that explanation since it is a lot simpler.

ajhurliman 7y ago

There are studies that back up this claim, though[0]. From the paper: “Labor force participation has fallen more in areas where relatively more opioid pain medication is prescribed” [0] https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/1_krueger.pdf https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/1_krueg...

arkades 7y ago
Very possibly reversing causality. That Brookings paper itself states that the economic downturn predates the 'opioid epidemic'. It's based on data that adds up to little more than, well, what you quoted - with little effort to prove which direction the causal link runs, although the paper seems to take for granted it's the drugs causing the labor participation reduction. The author, describing his assumptions in building his model (pg 36), states "This is a big leap," - language I've never actually seen in an academic paper before. It's usually the sort of thing that peer reviewers say behind their hands before throwing barbs at you.

mulmen 7y ago

I was a lot more compassionate 5 years ago when I thought Seattle could solve its homelessness problem. Now that it’s clear we can’t I just feel bad for everyone involved. There are entire parts of my city (parks, downtown) I can’t even visit because of the homeless. Maybe someone who falls on hard times doesn’t deserve jail time but if you steal or break any other laws you need to face the music, just like everyone else. The homeless deserve dignity and respect but so do the rest of us, I feel like that has been forgotten.

kerkeslager 7y ago
> There are entire parts of my city (parks, downtown) I can’t even visit because of the homeless. Maybe someone who falls on hard times doesn’t deserve jail time but if you steal or break any other laws you need to face the music, just like everyone else. > The homeless deserve dignity and respect but so do the rest of us, I feel like that has been forgotten. How mulmen isn't getting dignity and respect: he's afraid to visit parts of his city (parks, downtown). How homeless people aren't getting dignity and respect: sleeping outside in the very places mulmen is afraid to visit, having to beg for food. To be honest, even if anyone had forgotten about how inconvenient homelessness is for those who live in homes and don't have to go near areas with homeless, I'd be pretty okay with us forgetting that.
- mulmen 7y ago
  The “areas mulmen is afraid to go” include my daily commute and bus stops. They are very much places I visit frequently. Even if they were not places I frequently visit it would still not be acceptable. The current state of homelessness in Seattle sucks for everyone. Regular citizens of the city are rightfully getting fed up by the lack of progress. That’s important because the only way we can solve it is with the support of the public. Attacking me isn’t doing anything to help. We have law-abiding citizens getting stabbed walking down the street. Trash, human waste and used needles litter parks and public spaces. It’s not a safe place to be and that is not acceptable.
  - kerkeslager 7y ago

Thorrez 7y ago

>Further cracking down on homeless people will just transfer them from the streets to jails, where they will cost the taxpayers exorbitant amounts of money (and if they're in a private prison, create profit for private interests), while failing to get people back on their feet when they are eventually let go. It doesn't seem the article is advocating for a crackdown. The article seems to advocate for cities "to provide access to on-demand detox, rehabilitation, and recovery programs that might help people overcome their addictions."