4 ms·

Why Your Startup Shouldn't Hire a Marketer from Microsoft

33 points by meadhikari 16y ago

CPops 16y ago
Good overview, but it's important to keep in mind that there are definitely some very talented people at Microsoft that have their creativity and talents strangled to death by layers of horrible management. Reading some of these blogs about Microsoft's internal culture (Mini-Microsoft and others) illustrates this pretty clearly and makes for very fascinating reading.
- jdp23 16y ago
  Very true. I generally agree with what the article is saying -- and there are exceptions to every rule. MiniMSFT and others are indeed fascinating reading.
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    I would never hire MiniMSFT. Taking him/her out of Microsoft would ruin some fun reading. edit: OK... I would hire him/her, but only after he/she left Microsoft. Denying MiniMSFT such a rich source of inspiration would be inhumane.
goombastic 16y ago
Very to the point. I got in the wrong way, I am a startup marketer currently in a large company, and trust me it's nuts. The one thing people think about last is selling. Everything is about the running political score and I just don't get it. We have marketers who make 210K sitting around doing nothing much, even worse, they aren't interested in technology or the stuff they sell. Damn man, it sux, the money is good for the while though.
- yesno 16y ago
  The feeling likewise: most C-level executives don't care about the well-being of their employees.
supermanwillfly 16y ago
I am really amazed by the irony in the writer's bio: "I’ve held senior positions at large global companies including IBM, Nortel, Siebel Systems (the world’s leading provider of CRM solutions acquired by Oracle), and Sybase..."
- yesno 16y ago
  It's probably a very competitive market out there for her so perhaps she needs to "remind" her readers to hire her but not her ex-coworkers.
- 3pt14159 16y ago
  I know her personally. This is what she currently does: April comes into a startup that has a proven business model and brings it from 30ish people to IPO or acquisition. She is extraordinarily intelligent, technically knowledgeable, approachable, and successful. She is one of the key people in the Toronto tech scene, and even if she cut her teeth on big tech, she really is a growth phase startup person at heart. With respect to this post, I actually don't care much for it, but some of her other ones are gold. Specifically I've liked: http://www.rocketwatcher.com/blog/2010/10/marketing-metrics-101-for-b2b-startups.html http://www.rocketwatcher.com/blog/2010/10/marketing-metrics-... http://www.rocketwatcher.com/blog/2010/05/a-new-marketing-framework.html http://www.rocketwatcher.com/blog/2010/05/a-new-marketing-fr... http://www.rocketwatcher.com/blog/2010/11/startup-marketing-101-2.html http://www.rocketwatcher.com/blog/2010/11/startup-marketing-... http://www.rocketwatcher.com/blog/2010/09/competitive-intelligence-startup-style.html http://www.rocketwatcher.com/blog/2010/09/competitive-intell...
  - supermanwillfly 16y ago
    Interesting, thanks for sharing. I'll check those out.
savoy11 16y ago
The daily Microsoft bashing HN post. There are literally thousands of startups started by ex-Microsoft marketers, developers, sales people and they are doing great. Microsoft is definitely doing great as well. People are smart and can adapt. They will fight for politics and budget in big organization and they will get work done at startups. Labeling someone as "non-hire" just because they worked in Microsoft is plain stupid. Neglecting so much success and real on the field experience - definitely not smart. By the way, using the same logic - marketers from Google and Facebook shoud not be hired too? Or this will not appeal to the HN community, no Microsoft, so noone to hate. Of course reading the OP author bio confirms that - senior positions at Siebel, IBM, etc - they are obviously THAT MUCH different from Microsoft, really. So much hypocrisy. So much bullshit. Come on.
- electromagnetic 16y ago
  I'd hire a developer from Microsoft for sure. Solely for the reason that they have an inside knowledge with Microsoft products that your average developer might not, furthermore they might have enough connections that you can get insider-info on what might be involved in the next MS OS before everyone else gets the info.
  - johns 16y ago
    I think you overestimate the knowledge an MS dev has outside of their team. Talk to any of them and you'll quickly find out how little they know outside their area. It's a very big company with a lot of silos.
    - Locke1689 16y ago
      Most "inside information" is spread by watercooler talk anyway -- which is a lot less common when products are separated by building. The number one source for insider Microsoft information is Microsoft interns. Why? We're in almost every product division in Microsoft and we have our own inter-departmental social groups. I heard of some serious insider information not just on MS, but on Intel, Nvidia, etc. just from hanging out and drinking with the other interns on weekends.
ajg1977 16y ago
Conversely you may find a person who, when free of the political, hierarchical, and prone to play it safe environment that is Microsoft marketing (or many departments in many large corp's), will become a fantastic hire and combine their new found responsibility with years of experience to completely out-manouver companies with far bigger budgets. At the end of the day, if you place more weight on a the employment history of the candidate than the person, you may as well just flip a coin when determining whether they will meet your needs.
sedachv 16y ago
From personal experience, all four of the Microsoft marketing employees I've interacted with have been complete tools.
neworbit 16y ago
Reasonable enough to say that people with big-company backgrounds often have expectations that amount to "first I'll hire 4 people to do the job you are expecting me to." I would hire someone from Microsoft over someone from IBM any day. But I agree, I'd rather try and find some disgruntled Yahoo worker and at this point that ought to be easier.

33 points by meadhikari 16y ago

CPops 16y ago

Good overview, but it's important to keep in mind that there are definitely some very talented people at Microsoft that have their creativity and talents strangled to death by layers of horrible management. Reading some of these blogs about Microsoft's internal culture (Mini-Microsoft and others) illustrates this pretty clearly and makes for very fascinating reading.

jdp23 16y ago
Very true. I generally agree with what the article is saying -- and there are exceptions to every rule. MiniMSFT and others are indeed fascinating reading.
- rbanffy 16y ago
  I would never hire MiniMSFT. Taking him/her out of Microsoft would ruin some fun reading. edit: OK... I would hire him/her, but only after he/she left Microsoft. Denying MiniMSFT such a rich source of inspiration would be inhumane.

goombastic 16y ago

Very to the point. I got in the wrong way, I am a startup marketer currently in a large company, and trust me it's nuts. The one thing people think about last is selling. Everything is about the running political score and I just don't get it. We have marketers who make 210K sitting around doing nothing much, even worse, they aren't interested in technology or the stuff they sell. Damn man, it sux, the money is good for the while though.

yesno 16y ago
The feeling likewise: most C-level executives don't care about the well-being of their employees.

supermanwillfly 16y ago

I am really amazed by the irony in the writer's bio: "I’ve held senior positions at large global companies including IBM, Nortel, Siebel Systems (the world’s leading provider of CRM solutions acquired by Oracle), and Sybase..."

yesno 16y ago
It's probably a very competitive market out there for her so perhaps she needs to "remind" her readers to hire her but not her ex-coworkers.
3pt14159 16y ago
I know her personally. This is what she currently does: April comes into a startup that has a proven business model and brings it from 30ish people to IPO or acquisition. She is extraordinarily intelligent, technically knowledgeable, approachable, and successful. She is one of the key people in the Toronto tech scene, and even if she cut her teeth on big tech, she really is a growth phase startup person at heart. With respect to this post, I actually don't care much for it, but some of her other ones are gold. Specifically I've liked: http://www.rocketwatcher.com/blog/2010/10/marketing-metrics-101-for-b2b-startups.html http://www.rocketwatcher.com/blog/2010/10/marketing-metrics-... http://www.rocketwatcher.com/blog/2010/05/a-new-marketing-framework.html http://www.rocketwatcher.com/blog/2010/05/a-new-marketing-fr... http://www.rocketwatcher.com/blog/2010/11/startup-marketing-101-2.html http://www.rocketwatcher.com/blog/2010/11/startup-marketing-... http://www.rocketwatcher.com/blog/2010/09/competitive-intelligence-startup-style.html http://www.rocketwatcher.com/blog/2010/09/competitive-intell...
- supermanwillfly 16y ago
  Interesting, thanks for sharing. I'll check those out.

savoy11 16y ago

The daily Microsoft bashing HN post. There are literally thousands of startups started by ex-Microsoft marketers, developers, sales people and they are doing great. Microsoft is definitely doing great as well. People are smart and can adapt. They will fight for politics and budget in big organization and they will get work done at startups. Labeling someone as "non-hire" just because they worked in Microsoft is plain stupid. Neglecting so much success and real on the field experience - definitely not smart. By the way, using the same logic - marketers from Google and Facebook shoud not be hired too? Or this will not appeal to the HN community, no Microsoft, so noone to hate. Of course reading the OP author bio confirms that - senior positions at Siebel, IBM, etc - they are obviously THAT MUCH different from Microsoft, really. So much hypocrisy. So much bullshit. Come on.

electromagnetic 16y ago
I'd hire a developer from Microsoft for sure. Solely for the reason that they have an inside knowledge with Microsoft products that your average developer might not, furthermore they might have enough connections that you can get insider-info on what might be involved in the next MS OS before everyone else gets the info.
- johns 16y ago
  I think you overestimate the knowledge an MS dev has outside of their team. Talk to any of them and you'll quickly find out how little they know outside their area. It's a very big company with a lot of silos.
  - Locke1689 16y ago
    Most "inside information" is spread by watercooler talk anyway -- which is a lot less common when products are separated by building. The number one source for insider Microsoft information is Microsoft interns. Why? We're in almost every product division in Microsoft and we have our own inter-departmental social groups. I heard of some serious insider information not just on MS, but on Intel, Nvidia, etc. just from hanging out and drinking with the other interns on weekends.

ajg1977 16y ago

Conversely you may find a person who, when free of the political, hierarchical, and prone to play it safe environment that is Microsoft marketing (or many departments in many large corp's), will become a fantastic hire and combine their new found responsibility with years of experience to completely out-manouver companies with far bigger budgets. At the end of the day, if you place more weight on a the employment history of the candidate than the person, you may as well just flip a coin when determining whether they will meet your needs.

sedachv 16y ago

From personal experience, all four of the Microsoft marketing employees I've interacted with have been complete tools.

neworbit 16y ago

Reasonable enough to say that people with big-company backgrounds often have expectations that amount to "first I'll hire 4 people to do the job you are expecting me to." I would hire someone from Microsoft over someone from IBM any day. But I agree, I'd rather try and find some disgruntled Yahoo worker and at this point that ought to be easier.