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I recently moved from working for a US company to working for a CH one. There’s some disadvantages, like people not giving their all at work slowing things down

I recently moved from working for a US company to working for a CH one. There’s some disadvantages, like people not giving their all at work slowing things down. Compared to the previous role, it’s glacial. But no on call, 6 weeks vacation, and 8% pension contribution from the company that I don’t even have to match is a good trade-off. Work is always going to be frustrating, but I’m at a point in my life that I’d rather be frustrated at being forced to work a maximum of 37.5 hours per week (tracked with timesheets) than frustrated at unrealistic deadlines and the cult of appearing to get things done.

markbnj 7y ago
> There’s some disadvantages, like people not giving their all at work slowing things down. Compared to the previous role, it’s glacial. Maybe they've figured out that getting work done as fast as possible isn't the end goal of all human existence.
H8crilA 7y ago
What's the deal with people putting 120% efforts at work. It's clear that this is not necessary (for example - Switzerland is just fine). Put a steady 60-80% and bump it up to 100% when things get rough. I truly don't get it, sometimes it feels like people simply want to spend lives at work rather than do something else.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  Why do so many technology breakthroughs and successful companies get founded in the US, compared to Europe, then? Why do so many Europeans go off to work for US companies? There must be something beneficial about the US approach.
  - H8crilA 7y ago
    Sure, agreed. But I mean why would you, or me, or any other particular person do that? Confession on the topic: I feel guilty investing in US equity markets, earning hard bucks on the backs of people that put 120% labor efforts instead of enjoying their lives.
  - falsedan 7y ago
    I know this is a troll but: VCs have more funding available and are less risk-adverse, employees are easier to underpay/overwork (rip unions), corporate oversight is less burdensome. This is the first job outside of the public sector that I’ve seen union materials prominently displayed on internal notice boards.
    - chrisseaton 7y ago
      > I know this is a troll I can't understand how my point could be considered trolling. People seem to vote with their feet - they often choose US employers over European ones. The employers with the best conditions and pay in Europe are often US employers! For example local offices of Google.
      - komali2 7y ago
        > The employers with the best conditions and pay in Europe are often US employers! Could this be because theyre being subsidized by an exploited American workforce? They're certainly profiting off weaker data regulation in the USA. Anyway, it seems trolly because it'd be like arguing "well the Egyptians have pyramids, and the non slave holding civilizations don't. Clearly they're doing SOMETHING right." Lots of people are leaving America, as well. Most can't afford to. The ones that can afford international lifestyles aren't really burdened as much by the negative aspects of America - they can get good insurance through a company that can afford it, they can afford to Lyft everywhere to make up for the lack of public transit, they can flex during salary negotiations for longer PTO. How many impoverished in Europe are "voting with their feet" to come to the first world country with the worst safety net out of all of them? Imagine the innovations that could come from America if it actually invested in its population. The idea that Europe is not innovative is a bit of a myth anyway. This is a fun read: https://ec.europa.eu/growth/industry/innovation/facts-figures/scoreboards_en https://ec.europa.eu/growth/industry/innovation/facts-figure... Btw, Sweden is measured as the "most innovative" country in the EU. So in a system of first world countries with socialized education and healthcare, and despite detractors on this forum of their allegedly "high cost of living" they're still standing out amongst their peers.
      - 7y ago
  - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
    Or a very large homogeneous home market.
  - erikpukinskis 7y ago
    Do more Europeans go off to work for US companies than vice versa? I’m not up on the stats.
- falsedan 7y ago
  It’s frustrating for the things that should take a couple of hours but take 3-4 weeks, like laptop replacements or deploying new monitoring software or upgrading build tools or fixing a broken master branch. But ultimately those things don’t objectively matter and leaving at 5:45 to spend time with my family objectively does.
kartan 7y ago
> Work is always going to be frustrating I had a direct report with this problem. We talked about it and I helped him to realize that his previous situation was unhealthy. He was used to crunch, he was used to feel a hero for delivering at the cost of his own health and without time for his girlfriend. After the long talk he recognized that he was missing the adrenaline, he was so used to the stress that he was missing it. With time it got better. Feeling needed, the adrenaline rush, that feeling of accomplishment can be addictive. But, like tobacco, it does not mean that it is good for you.

markbnj 7y ago

> There’s some disadvantages, like people not giving their all at work slowing things down. Compared to the previous role, it’s glacial. Maybe they've figured out that getting work done as fast as possible isn't the end goal of all human existence.

H8crilA 7y ago

What's the deal with people putting 120% efforts at work. It's clear that this is not necessary (for example - Switzerland is just fine). Put a steady 60-80% and bump it up to 100% when things get rough. I truly don't get it, sometimes it feels like people simply want to spend lives at work rather than do something else.

chrisseaton 7y ago
Why do so many technology breakthroughs and successful companies get founded in the US, compared to Europe, then? Why do so many Europeans go off to work for US companies? There must be something beneficial about the US approach.
- H8crilA 7y ago
  Sure, agreed. But I mean why would you, or me, or any other particular person do that? Confession on the topic: I feel guilty investing in US equity markets, earning hard bucks on the backs of people that put 120% labor efforts instead of enjoying their lives.
- falsedan 7y ago
  I know this is a troll but: VCs have more funding available and are less risk-adverse, employees are easier to underpay/overwork (rip unions), corporate oversight is less burdensome. This is the first job outside of the public sector that I’ve seen union materials prominently displayed on internal notice boards.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    > I know this is a troll I can't understand how my point could be considered trolling. People seem to vote with their feet - they often choose US employers over European ones. The employers with the best conditions and pay in Europe are often US employers! For example local offices of Google.
    - komali2 7y ago
      > The employers with the best conditions and pay in Europe are often US employers! Could this be because theyre being subsidized by an exploited American workforce? They're certainly profiting off weaker data regulation in the USA. Anyway, it seems trolly because it'd be like arguing "well the Egyptians have pyramids, and the non slave holding civilizations don't. Clearly they're doing SOMETHING right." Lots of people are leaving America, as well. Most can't afford to. The ones that can afford international lifestyles aren't really burdened as much by the negative aspects of America - they can get good insurance through a company that can afford it, they can afford to Lyft everywhere to make up for the lack of public transit, they can flex during salary negotiations for longer PTO. How many impoverished in Europe are "voting with their feet" to come to the first world country with the worst safety net out of all of them? Imagine the innovations that could come from America if it actually invested in its population. The idea that Europe is not innovative is a bit of a myth anyway. This is a fun read: https://ec.europa.eu/growth/industry/innovation/facts-figures/scoreboards_en https://ec.europa.eu/growth/industry/innovation/facts-figure... Btw, Sweden is measured as the "most innovative" country in the EU. So in a system of first world countries with socialized education and healthcare, and despite detractors on this forum of their allegedly "high cost of living" they're still standing out amongst their peers.
    - 7y ago
- tonyedgecombe 7y ago
  Or a very large homogeneous home market.
- erikpukinskis 7y ago
  Do more Europeans go off to work for US companies than vice versa? I’m not up on the stats.
falsedan 7y ago
It’s frustrating for the things that should take a couple of hours but take 3-4 weeks, like laptop replacements or deploying new monitoring software or upgrading build tools or fixing a broken master branch. But ultimately those things don’t objectively matter and leaving at 5:45 to spend time with my family objectively does.

kartan 7y ago

> Work is always going to be frustrating I had a direct report with this problem. We talked about it and I helped him to realize that his previous situation was unhealthy. He was used to crunch, he was used to feel a hero for delivering at the cost of his own health and without time for his girlfriend. After the long talk he recognized that he was missing the adrenaline, he was so used to the stress that he was missing it. With time it got better. Feeling needed, the adrenaline rush, that feeling of accomplishment can be addictive. But, like tobacco, it does not mean that it is good for you.