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Have you been there? I really don’t think Russia has it figured out better than the US. Russia’s infrastructure is certainly not close to the level of Europe/Ja

by elamje 7y ago

Have you been there? I really don’t think Russia has it figured out better than the US. Russia’s infrastructure is certainly not close to the level of Europe/Japan or China.

cpursley 7y ago
> Have you been there? I really don’t think Russia has it figured out better than the US. Yes, I live here. Russian transportation absolutely blows anything in the US away, and I've traveled extensively in both countries. Transportation is embarrassing and frustrating for me when I come back to the US. The US is absolutely car-dependent. Russia has everything from Rail transport (trans-Siberian, etc), city subways (Moscow subway just built a bunch of new lines including a second ring), trams, electric buses, bus systems, marshrutka mini buses, very cheap taxis (uber & yandex). https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Moscow_metro_ring_railway_map_en_sb_future.svg/1000px-Moscow_metro_ring_railway_map_en_sb_future.svg.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Mo... > Russia’s infrastructure is certainly not close to the level of Europe/Japan or China. Fair enough, but their low tech solutions are cost effective and solve the problem. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2018/07/20/moscow-public-transit-ranks-worlds-most-efficient-a62287 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2018/07/20/moscow-public-tran...
- fastball 7y ago
  You don't think US cities have mass transit? The NYC subway[0] is 30 years older than the Moscow Metro[1], if you want to talk about "having things for a century". The US has train lines that cross the entire country as well. No HSR, which is what is needed, but then again neither does Russia. Here is a map of transcontinental railroads in the US in 1887[2]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Metro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Metro [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcontinental_railroad#/media/File:US_Pacific_Railroads_1887.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcontinental_railroad#/med...
  - cpursley 7y ago
    > You don't think US cities have mass transit? No, they are a hilarious joke. NYC metro is a dirty cesspool that can't build anything within budget. Marta in ATL doesen't go anywhere and hasn't added a new line in decades. Everyone knows how bad BART is. Also, it's generally more expensive to take Amtrak than fly. And Amtrak goes nowhere vs the Russian train systems. Just pull up a map to compare. And Russia does have some HSR (could use some more): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_Russia
    - fastball 7y ago
      Interesting that you decided to exclude Boston, Chicago, DC, and Philly from your list. NYC is a massively overbuilt city, much of which is on an island of bedrock. It wouldn't be any better if it was in Russia with the same geography. Not sure how Amtrak being more expensive than flying is relevant. Plus, I don't think you want to compare train coverage in the US vs Russia. Most of Russia's land area doesn't have good train coverage.
      - komali2 7y ago
        But most of the places where people actually live, does. Nobody needs trains to the middle of the Siberian tundra. Middle of south Dakota, on the other hand...
        fastball 7y ago
        So what you're saying is... the population distribution of Russia and the US are different and therefore present different problems?
      - wool_gather 7y ago
        We can include Boston if you'd like; it's awful too. The commuter rail fails on a daily basis in the summer and winter. The buses are persistently late and/or bunched up because they get stuck in traffic. (Feedback loop here, of course: the worse transit is, the more people decide to drive.) The T is overcrowded during peak hours and utterly unpredictable outside of them.
- daniel_reetz 7y ago
  I really wish we had marshrutka in the States.
- amedvednikov 7y ago
  Agreed, but I'd exclude marshrutkas from this list :) This is not something you want in a good public transportation system.
  - csydas 7y ago
    Be fair )). Marshrutki are the fastest way to get from region to region as long as you don't care about your well-being or appearance when you get there ;) When I need to get 15km across town fast in SPB rush hour I take a marshrutka. Jokes aside, I honestly am surprised megastores haven't come up with an equivalent in the US. Last I visited my family, I was frustrated because in an admittedly small City, a walk to a grocery store that was 1 mile away as the crow flies was either a 3 mile walk on safe paths or required the car. It just seems logical to me that you can bring more people in to spend if they can actually get to your location. Uber and other taxi-likes aren't really the same because the cost for a private ride is prohibitive for some to use it regularly like you'd use a marshrutka. But surely Walmart, shopping malls/centers, and other such commerce areas would benefit from a string of vans on regular intervals just picking up and dropping people off on a direct route.
Youden 7y ago
I'm another person who's been there. I've lived for three years in the Bay Area and travelled to a few other US cities (LA, Seattle, Portland, Orlando, Chicago) and surprisingly, even the smaller Russian cities I've visited mostly blow the US out of the water in terms of public transit and are a lot better in other aspects too. The city I stay in the most, where my wife is from, has a population of 110k, is absolutely not wealthy and is pretty far away from Moscow and St. Petersburg. In terms of local transit, there are frequent and affordable minibuses (Marshrutki) with stops all over the place. They cost (in this city) 17 rubles, which at the moment is around a quarter US. My mother in law is on a teacher's salary which is quite low and has no issues with affordability. I think the longest I waited for one was ~5 minutes. For regional transit, there are trains to and from the nearest airport and larger city, as well as the capital. From there you can take trains to Moscow and from there most of the rest of Russia. The trains are also fairly affordable, particularly if you go for the lowest class (which is admittedly something most Americans wouldn't be comfortable with). There are of course also planes.

by elamje 7y ago

Have you been there? I really don’t think Russia has it figured out better than the US. Russia’s infrastructure is certainly not close to the level of Europe/Japan or China.

cpursley 7y ago

> Have you been there? I really don’t think Russia has it figured out better than the US. Yes, I live here. Russian transportation absolutely blows anything in the US away, and I've traveled extensively in both countries. Transportation is embarrassing and frustrating for me when I come back to the US. The US is absolutely car-dependent. Russia has everything from Rail transport (trans-Siberian, etc), city subways (Moscow subway just built a bunch of new lines including a second ring), trams, electric buses, bus systems, marshrutka mini buses, very cheap taxis (uber & yandex). https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Moscow_metro_ring_railway_map_en_sb_future.svg/1000px-Moscow_metro_ring_railway_map_en_sb_future.svg.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Mo... > Russia’s infrastructure is certainly not close to the level of Europe/Japan or China. Fair enough, but their low tech solutions are cost effective and solve the problem. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2018/07/20/moscow-public-transit-ranks-worlds-most-efficient-a62287 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2018/07/20/moscow-public-tran...

fastball 7y ago
You don't think US cities have mass transit? The NYC subway[0] is 30 years older than the Moscow Metro[1], if you want to talk about "having things for a century". The US has train lines that cross the entire country as well. No HSR, which is what is needed, but then again neither does Russia. Here is a map of transcontinental railroads in the US in 1887[2]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Metro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Metro [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcontinental_railroad#/media/File:US_Pacific_Railroads_1887.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcontinental_railroad#/med...
- cpursley 7y ago
  > You don't think US cities have mass transit? No, they are a hilarious joke. NYC metro is a dirty cesspool that can't build anything within budget. Marta in ATL doesen't go anywhere and hasn't added a new line in decades. Everyone knows how bad BART is. Also, it's generally more expensive to take Amtrak than fly. And Amtrak goes nowhere vs the Russian train systems. Just pull up a map to compare. And Russia does have some HSR (could use some more): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_Russia
  - fastball 7y ago
    Interesting that you decided to exclude Boston, Chicago, DC, and Philly from your list. NYC is a massively overbuilt city, much of which is on an island of bedrock. It wouldn't be any better if it was in Russia with the same geography. Not sure how Amtrak being more expensive than flying is relevant. Plus, I don't think you want to compare train coverage in the US vs Russia. Most of Russia's land area doesn't have good train coverage.
    - komali2 7y ago
      But most of the places where people actually live, does. Nobody needs trains to the middle of the Siberian tundra. Middle of south Dakota, on the other hand...
      - fastball 7y ago
        So what you're saying is... the population distribution of Russia and the US are different and therefore present different problems?
    - wool_gather 7y ago
      We can include Boston if you'd like; it's awful too. The commuter rail fails on a daily basis in the summer and winter. The buses are persistently late and/or bunched up because they get stuck in traffic. (Feedback loop here, of course: the worse transit is, the more people decide to drive.) The T is overcrowded during peak hours and utterly unpredictable outside of them.
daniel_reetz 7y ago
I really wish we had marshrutka in the States.
amedvednikov 7y ago
Agreed, but I'd exclude marshrutkas from this list :) This is not something you want in a good public transportation system.
- csydas 7y ago
  Be fair )). Marshrutki are the fastest way to get from region to region as long as you don't care about your well-being or appearance when you get there ;) When I need to get 15km across town fast in SPB rush hour I take a marshrutka. Jokes aside, I honestly am surprised megastores haven't come up with an equivalent in the US. Last I visited my family, I was frustrated because in an admittedly small City, a walk to a grocery store that was 1 mile away as the crow flies was either a 3 mile walk on safe paths or required the car. It just seems logical to me that you can bring more people in to spend if they can actually get to your location. Uber and other taxi-likes aren't really the same because the cost for a private ride is prohibitive for some to use it regularly like you'd use a marshrutka. But surely Walmart, shopping malls/centers, and other such commerce areas would benefit from a string of vans on regular intervals just picking up and dropping people off on a direct route.

Youden 7y ago

I'm another person who's been there. I've lived for three years in the Bay Area and travelled to a few other US cities (LA, Seattle, Portland, Orlando, Chicago) and surprisingly, even the smaller Russian cities I've visited mostly blow the US out of the water in terms of public transit and are a lot better in other aspects too. The city I stay in the most, where my wife is from, has a population of 110k, is absolutely not wealthy and is pretty far away from Moscow and St. Petersburg. In terms of local transit, there are frequent and affordable minibuses (Marshrutki) with stops all over the place. They cost (in this city) 17 rubles, which at the moment is around a quarter US. My mother in law is on a teacher's salary which is quite low and has no issues with affordability. I think the longest I waited for one was ~5 minutes. For regional transit, there are trains to and from the nearest airport and larger city, as well as the capital. From there you can take trains to Moscow and from there most of the rest of Russia. The trains are also fairly affordable, particularly if you go for the lowest class (which is admittedly something most Americans wouldn't be comfortable with). There are of course also planes.