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Every defense attorney I've talked to says they've had a hundreds of cases where they wished their client hadn't talked to the cops. And they've never mentione

Every defense attorney I've talked to says they've had a hundreds of cases where they wished their client hadn't talked to the cops. And they've never mentioned one where they wished their client had talked to the cops. Oh Chris you're from the UK. I think most people on this thread are assuming you're talking about the u.s. where you should absolutely not talk to the cops until a lawyer is present. It must work differently in the UK where either the cops and prosecutors are less aggressively trying to convict you no matter your innocence or guilt. Or not speaking to the cops is held against you far more.

chrisseaton 7y ago
If you had a really rock-solid alibi - something that meant there was not even a remote possibility that you were the offender, would you still not bring it up at all to the Police? You'd go all the way to court, months later, and only then bring it up?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- TACIXAT 7y ago
  What if the police aren't questioning you about what they say? Your alibi can place you where they want to place you.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- DanBC 7y ago
  In the US: you don't ever talk to the police for any reason unless you have a lawyer with you telling you what to say. You're completely right about the UK though. If you didn't do it and police are asking if you did it it's normally much easier to just tell them that you didn't do it, and this has very little risk. The risk comes from people who have committed the offence, but who think that it's a minor issue and think that just explaining it to police will mean they can go. If the police stop you and you have a self-defence baseball bat in the boot of your car then you need to say "it's for playing baseball with the kids". As soon as you say "it's for self-defence, just to scare people off, I'd never hit anyone with it" that converts it into an offence and police are a bit touchy about weapons at the moment.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    > and you have a self-defence baseball bat in the boot of your car Well this isn't a great example because that is an offence and the Police would be right to do you for it! You're advocating lying to cover up offences for your own selfish benefit!
    - DanBC 7y ago
      But it's only an offence if it's there for self defence. If the police say "what's this bat for" and you know you only use it to play baseball then you should say that. If they ask and you say "I'm not saying anything" then they have enough to arrest you and take you to the station. This supports your point: in England it's often a good idea to talk to the police.
      - chrisseaton 7y ago
        > But it's only an offence if it's there for self defence. Well yes that was the situation described that I was replying to. > you have a self-defence baseball bat
    - mffnbs 7y ago
      It's not hard to turn that into a situation where it can work against you. What if it were your child's baseball bat? You can say that's what it's for but then what if the cop asks you if you'd use it for self defense? Would saying yes potentially be incriminating?
  - tzs 7y ago
    > In the US: you don't ever talk to the police for any reason unless you have a lawyer with you telling you what to say. How far do you take this? Here are a couple of hypothetical situations, and in both of them I would answer police questions. I've had people tell me that they would not, and have cited the popular video someone else cited earlier as the reason. 1. You are walking down the sidewalk and pass a parked car. You are a car enthusiast, and recognize the make, model, and year of the car because it is one that is sought after by enthusiasts, and this one particularly stands out because it looks like it some options that were only available in a limited edition. A moment later, you hear a commotion, and see a man run out of a building holding a baby, followed by a woman who is shouting "help! my baby! he took my baby!", and then faints. You see the man get into the aforementioned car and get onto a nearby freeway, heading South. Police quickly arrive. None of the other witnesses saw where the man went or could describe anything about him, because they were distracted when the woman fainted. The police ask you if you saw anything that could help find the man or identify him. Do you really wait until you cat get a lawyer to advise you before you describe the car and tell them he appeared to get on the Southbound freeway? 2. There is an explosion in your small office. Police are the first emergency responders to arrive. They ask if everyone is accounted for. You saw a coworker go into the bathroom shortly before the explosion, and did not see them come out, and looking around at your coworkers gathered across the street watching the office burn and being given first aid, you see everyone except that one coworker. Do you tell police that you still appear to have one missing coworker, or wait to run the question by a lawyer first?
- JamesBarney 7y ago
  If you have a rock solid alibi, like you're on video tape somewhere else while the crime happened and the police know exactly when the crime happened then you'll get off whether you talked to the police or not. But it's even hard to figure out whether or not you have a rock solid alibi because you don't necessarily know the timing of the crime. Also plenty of people have gone to jail for 20 years in the u.s. who have rock solid alibis(like they were in another city).
  - enitihas 7y ago
    Wow, that sounds really bad. Do you have any examples of cases where people who were in another city got such large sentences?
    - stevenwoo 7y ago
      This guy was at work, still got convicted of murder, put on death row, because bad prosecutor and sheriff. https://www.texastribune.org/2016/08/13/michael-morton-murder-case-reverberates-across-tex/ https://www.texastribune.org/2016/08/13/michael-morton-murde... https://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/the-innocent-man-part-one/ https://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/the-innocent-man-part-...
- emmp 7y ago
  You would potentially bring this up to the police, after consulting with your lawyer and ascertaining the precise language and limits of what you'll say. You won't be doing this on the fly without consulting with a lawyer. This doesn't require you to wait until a court date to have any statement made on behalf of yourself.
- hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago
  Why not consult with a lawyer who will be qualified to advise you appropriately?
jellicle 7y ago
The UK specifically rules that failing to speak to the police can be held against you. (You still shouldn't speak to the police, even in the UK.) Every country is somewhat different in its rules for how a suspect can be questioned, what inferences can be drawn, etc. But the advice for everywhere is still the same: shut up.
- hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago
  You have the absolute right to a solicitor before giving a statement. Your solicitor will advise appropriately - until they have I personally would shut up.
  - JoeSmithson 7y ago
    Giving a statement is not the same thing as being interviewed as a suspect. You don't have a right to a solicitor before giving a witness statement, but it's completely up to you whether you want to give a statement. You have a right to free and independent legal advice if you are interviewed under caution as a suspect (whether or not you have been arrested).
    - hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago
      The thing is the police have a small habit of not really telling you that you are a suspect...
      - JoeSmithson 7y ago
        Not in the UK; the rules around interviews are very clear (PACE Code C) and very strictly enforced. What are you basing your statement on?
        hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago
        This covers interviews under caution. Remember that the police can/will take a note of everything you say... I am not giving advice only friendly suggestions based on other people's real world experience. You are free to ignore me.
treis 7y ago
>Every defense attorney I've talked to says they've had a hundreds of cases where they wished their client hadn't talked to the cops It may be good advice, but this logic is clearly confirmation bias. A person who talked to the cops and succeeded in convincing them of their innocence would not have a need for a defense attorney.
- JamesBarney 7y ago
  Once the police officers are convinced enough that you did it to bring you in for questioning the chances you'll be able to just convince them otherwise are slim and a huge risk.
  - treis 7y ago
    I don't think that's true. The police cast a wide net and will question anyone they think might have something to do with a crime. Especially if they don't have good leads to go on. Being uncooperative can definitely raise suspicions. Watching the first 48 (a show following murder investigations) I'd break it down to: (1) people that are guilty and think things like "he had it coming" or "my buddy was just supposed to rob him" help their case. They admit to capital crimes when trying to lessen their guilt. (2) people the police think are guilty and ineffectively lie. They probably don't hurt or help themselves. (3) people the police aren't sure of. They can talk themselves in or out of suspicion based on their guilt and/or ability to effectively lie. The group that get coerced into confessing to a crime is a very small percentage of people interviewed.
    - twright0 7y ago
      To be frank, this is bad advice [EDIT: parent wasn't giving advice, so instead this should read as something like "Talking to police without your attorney present is a very risky idea..."] that probably literally every criminal defense attorney in the United States will disagree with (I am not a lawyer, however, to be clear). A better framing perhaps is that there are two scenarios if you are being interrogated by the police: (1) The police have enough evidence to charge you with a crime (2) The police do not have enough evidence to charge you with a crime They do not have to tell you (and can actively lie!) which scenario you are in, and these scenarios are only loosely correlated with whether or not you actually recently committed a crime. In scenario (1), they're going to charge you with a crime no matter what you say - they already have enough evidence. And anything you say to the police in this scenario can only be used as evidence against you to further strengthen the police's case, it cannot be used in your own defense in court. So it's better to remain silent. In scenario (2), if you remain silent, they cannot charge you with a crime - they don't have enough evidence and you're not giving them any (asserting your right to remain silent is not evidence). If you answer their questions, you might accidentally give them enough evidence to charge you with a crime, like contradicting your own story because your memory is fallible. The police are allowed to lie to you, ask you trick questions, wear you down, and in general do anything they can to get a confession or other evidence against you. The things you say here can only be used against you to strengthen the police's case. So it's better to remain silent. If you are being interrogated by the police, they are not your friends and nothing you say can help you. The only person on your side is your lawyer. Stay silent until your lawyer is in the room, and then do exactly what your lawyer says. It's been linked elsewhere, but https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE is a real-life law professor and a police officer both saying exactly the same thing. American TV often includes narratives about the behavior of police officers that do not align with reality or the best interests of people accused of crimes.
chimeracoder 7y ago
> It must work differently in the UK where either the cops and prosecutors are less aggressively trying to convict you no matter your innocence or guilt. Or not speaking to the cops is held against you far more. Cops and prosecutors are definitely just as aggressive in the UK. The difference is that UK case law, unlike the US, allows the refusal to speak with the police to be construed as evidence in itself, whereas the US does not.
- hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago
  Sort of. You have the absolute right to a solicitor before giving a statement. Your solicitor will advise appropriately.

chrisseaton 7y ago

If you had a really rock-solid alibi - something that meant there was not even a remote possibility that you were the offender, would you still not bring it up at all to the Police? You'd go all the way to court, months later, and only then bring it up?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
TACIXAT 7y ago
What if the police aren't questioning you about what they say? Your alibi can place you where they want to place you.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
DanBC 7y ago
In the US: you don't ever talk to the police for any reason unless you have a lawyer with you telling you what to say. You're completely right about the UK though. If you didn't do it and police are asking if you did it it's normally much easier to just tell them that you didn't do it, and this has very little risk. The risk comes from people who have committed the offence, but who think that it's a minor issue and think that just explaining it to police will mean they can go. If the police stop you and you have a self-defence baseball bat in the boot of your car then you need to say "it's for playing baseball with the kids". As soon as you say "it's for self-defence, just to scare people off, I'd never hit anyone with it" that converts it into an offence and police are a bit touchy about weapons at the moment.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  > and you have a self-defence baseball bat in the boot of your car Well this isn't a great example because that is an offence and the Police would be right to do you for it! You're advocating lying to cover up offences for your own selfish benefit!
  - DanBC 7y ago
    But it's only an offence if it's there for self defence. If the police say "what's this bat for" and you know you only use it to play baseball then you should say that. If they ask and you say "I'm not saying anything" then they have enough to arrest you and take you to the station. This supports your point: in England it's often a good idea to talk to the police.
    - chrisseaton 7y ago
      > But it's only an offence if it's there for self defence. Well yes that was the situation described that I was replying to. > you have a self-defence baseball bat
  - mffnbs 7y ago
    It's not hard to turn that into a situation where it can work against you. What if it were your child's baseball bat? You can say that's what it's for but then what if the cop asks you if you'd use it for self defense? Would saying yes potentially be incriminating?
- tzs 7y ago
  > In the US: you don't ever talk to the police for any reason unless you have a lawyer with you telling you what to say. How far do you take this? Here are a couple of hypothetical situations, and in both of them I would answer police questions. I've had people tell me that they would not, and have cited the popular video someone else cited earlier as the reason. 1. You are walking down the sidewalk and pass a parked car. You are a car enthusiast, and recognize the make, model, and year of the car because it is one that is sought after by enthusiasts, and this one particularly stands out because it looks like it some options that were only available in a limited edition. A moment later, you hear a commotion, and see a man run out of a building holding a baby, followed by a woman who is shouting "help! my baby! he took my baby!", and then faints. You see the man get into the aforementioned car and get onto a nearby freeway, heading South. Police quickly arrive. None of the other witnesses saw where the man went or could describe anything about him, because they were distracted when the woman fainted. The police ask you if you saw anything that could help find the man or identify him. Do you really wait until you cat get a lawyer to advise you before you describe the car and tell them he appeared to get on the Southbound freeway? 2. There is an explosion in your small office. Police are the first emergency responders to arrive. They ask if everyone is accounted for. You saw a coworker go into the bathroom shortly before the explosion, and did not see them come out, and looking around at your coworkers gathered across the street watching the office burn and being given first aid, you see everyone except that one coworker. Do you tell police that you still appear to have one missing coworker, or wait to run the question by a lawyer first?
JamesBarney 7y ago
If you have a rock solid alibi, like you're on video tape somewhere else while the crime happened and the police know exactly when the crime happened then you'll get off whether you talked to the police or not. But it's even hard to figure out whether or not you have a rock solid alibi because you don't necessarily know the timing of the crime. Also plenty of people have gone to jail for 20 years in the u.s. who have rock solid alibis(like they were in another city).
- enitihas 7y ago
  Wow, that sounds really bad. Do you have any examples of cases where people who were in another city got such large sentences?
  - stevenwoo 7y ago
    This guy was at work, still got convicted of murder, put on death row, because bad prosecutor and sheriff. https://www.texastribune.org/2016/08/13/michael-morton-murder-case-reverberates-across-tex/ https://www.texastribune.org/2016/08/13/michael-morton-murde... https://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/the-innocent-man-part-one/ https://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/the-innocent-man-part-...
emmp 7y ago
You would potentially bring this up to the police, after consulting with your lawyer and ascertaining the precise language and limits of what you'll say. You won't be doing this on the fly without consulting with a lawyer. This doesn't require you to wait until a court date to have any statement made on behalf of yourself.
hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago
Why not consult with a lawyer who will be qualified to advise you appropriately?

jellicle 7y ago

The UK specifically rules that failing to speak to the police can be held against you. (You still shouldn't speak to the police, even in the UK.) Every country is somewhat different in its rules for how a suspect can be questioned, what inferences can be drawn, etc. But the advice for everywhere is still the same: shut up.

hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago
You have the absolute right to a solicitor before giving a statement. Your solicitor will advise appropriately - until they have I personally would shut up.
- JoeSmithson 7y ago
  Giving a statement is not the same thing as being interviewed as a suspect. You don't have a right to a solicitor before giving a witness statement, but it's completely up to you whether you want to give a statement. You have a right to free and independent legal advice if you are interviewed under caution as a suspect (whether or not you have been arrested).
  - hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago
    The thing is the police have a small habit of not really telling you that you are a suspect...
    - JoeSmithson 7y ago
      Not in the UK; the rules around interviews are very clear (PACE Code C) and very strictly enforced. What are you basing your statement on?
      - hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago
        This covers interviews under caution. Remember that the police can/will take a note of everything you say... I am not giving advice only friendly suggestions based on other people's real world experience. You are free to ignore me.

treis 7y ago

>Every defense attorney I've talked to says they've had a hundreds of cases where they wished their client hadn't talked to the cops It may be good advice, but this logic is clearly confirmation bias. A person who talked to the cops and succeeded in convincing them of their innocence would not have a need for a defense attorney.

JamesBarney 7y ago
Once the police officers are convinced enough that you did it to bring you in for questioning the chances you'll be able to just convince them otherwise are slim and a huge risk.
- treis 7y ago
  I don't think that's true. The police cast a wide net and will question anyone they think might have something to do with a crime. Especially if they don't have good leads to go on. Being uncooperative can definitely raise suspicions. Watching the first 48 (a show following murder investigations) I'd break it down to: (1) people that are guilty and think things like "he had it coming" or "my buddy was just supposed to rob him" help their case. They admit to capital crimes when trying to lessen their guilt. (2) people the police think are guilty and ineffectively lie. They probably don't hurt or help themselves. (3) people the police aren't sure of. They can talk themselves in or out of suspicion based on their guilt and/or ability to effectively lie. The group that get coerced into confessing to a crime is a very small percentage of people interviewed.
  - twright0 7y ago
    To be frank, this is bad advice [EDIT: parent wasn't giving advice, so instead this should read as something like "Talking to police without your attorney present is a very risky idea..."] that probably literally every criminal defense attorney in the United States will disagree with (I am not a lawyer, however, to be clear). A better framing perhaps is that there are two scenarios if you are being interrogated by the police: (1) The police have enough evidence to charge you with a crime (2) The police do not have enough evidence to charge you with a crime They do not have to tell you (and can actively lie!) which scenario you are in, and these scenarios are only loosely correlated with whether or not you actually recently committed a crime. In scenario (1), they're going to charge you with a crime no matter what you say - they already have enough evidence. And anything you say to the police in this scenario can only be used as evidence against you to further strengthen the police's case, it cannot be used in your own defense in court. So it's better to remain silent. In scenario (2), if you remain silent, they cannot charge you with a crime - they don't have enough evidence and you're not giving them any (asserting your right to remain silent is not evidence). If you answer their questions, you might accidentally give them enough evidence to charge you with a crime, like contradicting your own story because your memory is fallible. The police are allowed to lie to you, ask you trick questions, wear you down, and in general do anything they can to get a confession or other evidence against you. The things you say here can only be used against you to strengthen the police's case. So it's better to remain silent. If you are being interrogated by the police, they are not your friends and nothing you say can help you. The only person on your side is your lawyer. Stay silent until your lawyer is in the room, and then do exactly what your lawyer says. It's been linked elsewhere, but https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE is a real-life law professor and a police officer both saying exactly the same thing. American TV often includes narratives about the behavior of police officers that do not align with reality or the best interests of people accused of crimes.

chimeracoder 7y ago

> It must work differently in the UK where either the cops and prosecutors are less aggressively trying to convict you no matter your innocence or guilt. Or not speaking to the cops is held against you far more. Cops and prosecutors are definitely just as aggressive in the UK. The difference is that UK case law, unlike the US, allows the refusal to speak with the police to be construed as evidence in itself, whereas the US does not.

hdfbdtbcdg 7y ago
Sort of. You have the absolute right to a solicitor before giving a statement. Your solicitor will advise appropriately.