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Is there anything more stereotypical than an Australian lecturing Americans on the slippery slope of gun control? Preface... In Australia 1997 there was a gun
by SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
Is there anything more stereotypical than an Australian lecturing Americans on the slippery slope of gun control?
Preface... In Australia 1997 there was a gun confiscation (buy back if you wanna call it that, but be honest) on any gun deemed suitable for defense. It coincided with an almost double number of police per capita. Crime fell! Unfortunately for that argument crime fell by a greater rate in the USA over the same time period, no gun ban, no major increase in police per capita.
We talk about the slippery slope being real, because we have so many examples of it being so:
- Capacity of magazines... No magazine limits country-wide, then in areas... 100 round drums banned, large capacity firearms regulated as destructive devices, a brief period where they tried to say “no larger than what the gun was designed for”, 30 round magazine limits, 15 in New Jersey in Colorado now, 10 in ban states like California Maryland Connecticut, New York went 7 with the mostly failed SAFE ACT, Canada has 3 and 5 on rifles depending on situation and I’ve already heard that come up in interviews in the USA. There is no number ever safe enough to satisfy people who argue for disarmament. Goal has always been to the define an arbitrary number and re-define it later. It’s the very system of getting you to accept an arbitrary number in the first place.
- Want to go again? The SKS rifle, a Soviet precursor to the AK-47... no restrictions in the USA, after an SKS is illegally converted to full auto and used in a shootout with police in California… CA decides this gun is unusually dangerous (it’s not), state wide sales of SKS rifle’s are halted, a registration program is instituted, despite assurances grandfathering will remain allowed, not long later that registry is used to door to door confiscate those rifles. Something the felt comfortable doing because of the small number of registered owners. A single crime with and illegally converted gun directly led to the confiscation of a rifle that is typically less dangerous than common alternatives.
- You gave the example for bump stock ban. Ok, The 1934 National Firearms Act defines that a machine gun is a firearm that fires two or more bullets for every one press of the trigger pull. Bump stocks do not fall under this category in any way, the trigger must be activated multiple times for multiple shots. The ATF approves a product called the Atkins Accelerator; think of it as a bump stock with a spring for 22 rifle, later after approval the ATF decides because it’s spring operated it is a machine gun, they ask for registration, use the registration for confiscation (as is always the plan) - but not of the stock! Only the spring in it. Many years later bump stocks become popular the ATF examines and okays them because it meets no definition machine gun, has no spring for automated actuation, and does nothing an experienced shooter can’t do without the help of that stock. And here we are again, now the ATF has decided that despite no bump stocks being used in crimes, no spring, and despite previous approval, they are now illegal. With no registration there has been no confiscation. Last I heard the number willingly turned in is in the low hundreds, with of hundreds of thousands sold. Possession of a previously legal plastic injection molding, with no change in law, only opinion, has now made you a felon.
- More examples would include ammo shape and metal contents under the entirely arbitrary guise of “armor piercing”, the NFA itself, import restrictions, ITAR continually evolving, the “approved handgun lists” that states have adopted but intentionally failed to maintain, etc
Might have better luck arguing that the slippery slope regarding guns isn’t real, if we didn’t have so many examples of it being so.
Edit: All historical facts.
- red_admiral 7y ago> despite no bump stocks being used in crimes Except for a mass shooting from a hotel window? EDIT: ok, if you're talking about Australia then I'm not refuting your data. But I can understand why a country that sees news of a mass shooting abroad would ask itself whether that could happen to them too and whether they might want to do anything about it.
- SlowRobotAhead 7y agoWell, ok, Vegas... Well... You would have me there! Except that the ATF in FOIA requrest reported that they were aware of no crimes that involved bump stocks [0] Aside from that, I could probably ask how the media was confidently able to report bump stocks were used - but that NOT A SINGLE official report or released info mentions them as being used. Only media coverage. Everyone should be extremely skepical of the extreme limited amount of confirmed information released on Vegas. Not implying any sort of conspiracy at all, but there is clearly something atypical with that event. But hey, maybe the ATF and the Criminal Enforcement System of Records is wrong! [0] http://www.captainsjournal.com/2019/05/01/foia-response-from-the-atf-no-bumpstocks-used-in-any-crime-to-date/ http://www.captainsjournal.com/2019/05/01/foia-response-from... edit: For additional info on Vegas. The ATF says up front they were never authorized to examine the firearms in the Las Vegas shooting (highly irregular). They can't say they were R/DIAS, Lightening links, illegal sear conversions, crank trigger, bump stocks or just shot quickly. [1] That data on still should have been added to and appeared the CESR though, which it does not. My personal opinion is that the photos released show bipods - Bump stocks don't work from bipods! [1] https://waronguns.blogspot.com/2019/04/about-those-bump-stocks.html https://waronguns.blogspot.com/2019/04/about-those-bump-stoc...
- red_admiral 7y agoSince you seem to know more about this than I do: could one deduce what was used from the audio recordings that I'm sure lots of people have made? I imagine some combination of rate of fire and pauses between bursts and other factors could tell if it was "real" full-auto fire.