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I believe this is a deliberate misrepresentation of the current state of affairs on Vulkan. Likely for the purposes of spreading disinformation about a specific

I believe this is a deliberate misrepresentation of the current state of affairs on Vulkan. Likely for the purposes of spreading disinformation about a specification that legions of smart, dedicated, hardworking engineers came up with after countless hours of debate and consensus. I mean be real... there is no way that any programmer who actually used Vulkan would find it as pleasant to work with as you imply in your comment.

pjmlp 7y ago
Here is the list of Vulkan extensions with device coverage. https://vulkan.gpuinfo.org/listextensions.php https://vulkan.gpuinfo.org/listextensions.php Clicking a bit around, gives the Vulkan support version per device, which on Android is a mess, unless one only cares about flagship devices. https://vulkan.gpuinfo.org/listdevices.php?platform=android https://vulkan.gpuinfo.org/listdevices.php?platform=android Now regarding the tooling, since I am spreading disinformation, can you please provide us with the SDK tooling that matches the offerings from Apple, Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft, regarding their own APIs? Because what LunarG offers is pretty bare bones, and the OEM SDKs pretty much just provide the basic stuff as well, with C samples. I guess that someone that rather goes hunting for glm, uses sbt for textures, writes their own font rendering engine, compiles shaders from the command line, only knows about RenderDoc is capable of,... will feel very uncomfortable with the available set of Metal tooling and Frameworks. And this is one of the best tutorials available for Vulkan beginners, https://vulkan-tutorial.com https://vulkan-tutorial.com
- leoc 7y ago
  (whoosh?)
- johncolanduoni 7y ago
  Most of the extensions are for what are currently pre-production or fringe features, and the WG showed they're not afraid of pulling important (and even not so important) extensions into minor version releases much faster than OpenGL has put things in core with Vulkan 1.1 (I was glad but honestly surprised that the cross-process resource sharing made the cut). You're definitely right about significant parts of the toolchain being weaker. In particular sorting out how glslang -> Vulkan works in practice is pretty trial-and-error, and if you want to use HLSL it's even more poorly documented. You have to expect to be going through the Vulkan spec (which I will say is much easier than directly using the OpenGL spec). However the Vulkan validation layers are incredible, and leave the equivalents for Metal, DirectX, and especially OpenGL in the dust.
- bilbo0s 7y ago
  I think you missed the joke.
- nothrabannosir 7y ago
  It was a joke. Read the comment to the end.
johncolanduoni 7y ago
I think the supposition that pjmlp is knowing mischaracterizing Vulkan is both likely to be false and excessively uncharitable (and I say that as a big fan of Vulkan). I think it's just a matter of not having had much experience with it. It is natural to look at the shape of the API and have PTSD about wrestling with OpenGL for the past few decades.
- mrec 7y ago
  I'm pretty sure the comment you're responding to is just a switcharoo-format joke. Unless the last sentence is missing an "un" before "pleasant".
  - johncolanduoni 7y ago
    Yeah I assumed that was the omission but that makes a lot more sense lol

pjmlp 7y ago

Here is the list of Vulkan extensions with device coverage. https://vulkan.gpuinfo.org/listextensions.php https://vulkan.gpuinfo.org/listextensions.php Clicking a bit around, gives the Vulkan support version per device, which on Android is a mess, unless one only cares about flagship devices. https://vulkan.gpuinfo.org/listdevices.php?platform=android https://vulkan.gpuinfo.org/listdevices.php?platform=android Now regarding the tooling, since I am spreading disinformation, can you please provide us with the SDK tooling that matches the offerings from Apple, Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft, regarding their own APIs? Because what LunarG offers is pretty bare bones, and the OEM SDKs pretty much just provide the basic stuff as well, with C samples. I guess that someone that rather goes hunting for glm, uses sbt for textures, writes their own font rendering engine, compiles shaders from the command line, only knows about RenderDoc is capable of,... will feel very uncomfortable with the available set of Metal tooling and Frameworks. And this is one of the best tutorials available for Vulkan beginners, https://vulkan-tutorial.com https://vulkan-tutorial.com

leoc 7y ago
(whoosh?)
johncolanduoni 7y ago
Most of the extensions are for what are currently pre-production or fringe features, and the WG showed they're not afraid of pulling important (and even not so important) extensions into minor version releases much faster than OpenGL has put things in core with Vulkan 1.1 (I was glad but honestly surprised that the cross-process resource sharing made the cut). You're definitely right about significant parts of the toolchain being weaker. In particular sorting out how glslang -> Vulkan works in practice is pretty trial-and-error, and if you want to use HLSL it's even more poorly documented. You have to expect to be going through the Vulkan spec (which I will say is much easier than directly using the OpenGL spec). However the Vulkan validation layers are incredible, and leave the equivalents for Metal, DirectX, and especially OpenGL in the dust.
bilbo0s 7y ago
I think you missed the joke.
nothrabannosir 7y ago
It was a joke. Read the comment to the end.

johncolanduoni 7y ago

I think the supposition that pjmlp is knowing mischaracterizing Vulkan is both likely to be false and excessively uncharitable (and I say that as a big fan of Vulkan). I think it's just a matter of not having had much experience with it. It is natural to look at the shape of the API and have PTSD about wrestling with OpenGL for the past few decades.

mrec 7y ago
I'm pretty sure the comment you're responding to is just a switcharoo-format joke. Unless the last sentence is missing an "un" before "pleasant".
- johncolanduoni 7y ago
  Yeah I assumed that was the omission but that makes a lot more sense lol