5 ms·

I can't maintain extreme regimes. Some five years ago I used a combination of intermittent fasting and carb cutting to drop like 40 pounds, I was svelte, looked

I can't maintain extreme regimes. Some five years ago I used a combination of intermittent fasting and carb cutting to drop like 40 pounds, I was svelte, looked better than my early twenties. But eventually I realized this has to become my mother-effing lifestyle if I want to keep looking that way. It's not that I can't do it. It's that the tradeoffs just aren't worth it for me. So I gave it up, piled on pounds for a few years until I felt the need for another health intervention. what I do now is to eat more deliberately and pay close attention to the feeling of satiety so I can stop eating. Pounds are slowly melting away. My father has the same mindset as Penn. He can't simply watch his eating. Willpower gets depleted and he finds himself eating the rest of the cookies in the bag, and the other two bags as well. For him, he has to cut out everything "bad". He has to frame it in terms of a moral conflict because otherwise cheat meals turn into cheat days and cheat days turn into dropping the diet for months until he works up the willpower to do it again. He's also an alcoholic, has been dry for 25 years. Still goes to daily meetings. When I lost willpower, I gained 20-30 pounds over 5 years. When my father loses willpower, he gains 50-100 pounds. He might do this twice a year. All-or-nothing feels like prison for me. It's freeing for the addictive mind. Once the moral dynamic is surrendered to, agency is found. The non-addictive mind seeks harmony between competing desires and urges, the desire to have a fun and varied diet vs the desire to be fit and healthy. Addicts can't have harmony because they lose willpower faster than they can accomplish goals. Only in disharmony can they find lasting agency.

StavrosK 7y ago
There is no "addictive mind". I am very much like your dad when it comes to food. I just can't not eat something close by, even when I'm not hungry, but I have no interest in alcohol, gambling, drugs, or any other kind of addiction. People can have trouble with one addictive thing (e.g. loot boxes) while they're completely fine with many other addictive things.
- LocalH 7y ago
  That doesn't mean there is no "addictive mind". Just that yours is not too far along that scale.
- vinceguidry 7y ago
  I don't think you're like my dad at all if that's the extent of your weakness for food. My dad will eat the three bags of cookies, then go rummaging through the fridge for ice cream, eat a whole half gallon, then get in his car and go to Krispy Kreme until his craving is satisfied. As bad as this is, his alcoholism was even worse while he was drinking. He's slowly, slowly getting better, year after year. One one hand it's a difference in degree and not in kind, on the other it's so much of a degree that it's effectively a difference in kind.
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    Possibly, but I still find it hard to believe that some people will get addicted to anything addictive. Maybe some people are more likely to get addicted, in general, but I don't think there are people who can't even eg use Instagram for fear of becoming addicted to it. Is there any research towards this?
    - vinceguidry 7y ago
      It's not the thing that's addictive, it's the mind that gets addicted. And the mind has to like something about it first, once it does, it goes to immense extremes to get as much of it as humanly possible. Before looking to research, maybe ask a few addicts what it's like to be them first? For my father it's about finding healthy outlets for his addictive tendencies. He likes no-carb because it allows him to not have to exercise willpower to stop eating, he can just eat as much as his stomach will allow, and not trigger an insulin response. He knows it's not going to cause him to lose a ton of weight because he's still eating a ton of calories, but the little wins are important to him. Slowly he acquires more willpower in a context of a lifestyle where he doesn't have to be making those decisions all the time.
    - kungtotte 7y ago
      There's a great documentary by Russell Brand (From Addiction to Recovery, it's on Netflix) where he visits a neurological research facility in Britain where they've seen pretty clear evidence that a percentage of the population are more prone to become addicted; to anything that is. They are the kinds of people who could get addicted to Instagram due to the dopamine hit.
karlp 7y ago
> But eventually I realized this has to become my mother-effing lifestyle if I want to keep looking that way. This is so true, people judge you for not looking like a Hollywood actor (whether you're a man or a woman) but don't realize what it costs to look that way
- toyg 7y ago
  When you read up on actors' routines and how they vary pre/post shoot, you understand it's all utterly unsustainable - they do it because it's their job, it's part of their working day. If your boss told you to use docker on project X, you'd learn docker and do it; their boss tells them to lose 20 pounds and look trim, or gain 20 pounds and look fatty, and they do it for the few months required to complete the project, with all sorts of expensive medical help. You don't see how they look inbetween projects, nor do you see the ones that stop being leads (or never make it) because they cannot keep up the effort.
  - brianwawok 7y ago
    That said, there is a pretty wide gulf between Paid actor who works out 30h a week and Never worked out, 200 pounds overweight I try to at least put 5 hours a week into bridging the gap ;) (sometimes fail :( )
    - toyg 7y ago
      Of course, but my point was that not even Hemsworth and Jackman can look like Thor and Wolverine all year round. Even Mr. Olympian has to vary his diet to look good on trophy day. So, in practice, a regular person will never fully bridge the gap, and judging him/her by those unrealistic parameters is just unreasonable.
  - EGreg 7y ago
    By the way, this has as much to say about capitalism as a way to organize human activity, an even more interestingly en masse, making people do what they otherwise wouldn’t, because “their boss said so”. A command economy can be found in many places. Sometimes an entire country engages in it (such as came out in the Nurenburg trials). Anyone remember what Xanatos said to Owen in Gargoyles right after finding the castle in the series opening?
preommr 7y ago
> I was svelte Is this just me experiencing the baader-meinhof effect or did you get inspired to use this after learning about the framework?
- jiveturkey 7y ago
  ironic that you cite 'baader-meinhof' as if it is commonly known, but think 'svelte' is arcane.
  - preommr 7y ago
    Anyone on reddit for more than 6 months will be familiar with that term since it comes up in subs like r/til every other week. It's definitely not some super common term but I am guessing the overlap between hn and reddit is large enough that most people here would be familiar with it. On the other hand, I don't think I've ever seen anyone use svelte in common parlance in my lifetime.
- CydeWeys 7y ago
  Svelte is a common-enough English word?
- mbroncano 7y ago
  I could only guess that for OP English is a second language, the word is quite common in a number of European languages.
  - vinceguidry 7y ago
    Wow, who know what a less-than-common word choice would drive people to think. I now want a vocabulary study list of words that are just common enough to not be archaic but not so common they won't not cause this reaction, and then put one or two of them in every social media post.
    - mbroncano 7y ago
      I stand corrected, your grammar is certainly not the result of an European education system.
kennywinker 7y ago
Depending on your ages, and if you believe the lead-crime hypothesis, your dad may have been exposed to higher lead levels as a child - leading to poorer impulse control.
- vinceguidry 7y ago
  You know, I don't want to bare all of my dad's demons on social media. But yeah, there's an answer to that question.
kjaftaedi 7y ago
>But eventually I realized this has to become my mother-effing lifestyle >what I do now is to eat more deliberately and pay close attention to the feeling of satiety so I can stop eating. Ah yes, the old trick of avoiding a lifestyle change by adopting an exactly similar lifestyle change. The only person suggesting a certain lifestyle change need to be all or nothing, is you yourself. Intermittent fasting is the most non-all or nothing approach to eating that exists. The very definition of intermittent is telling you it's not constant. It's whatever you want it to be. In fact, you could call what you are doing right now 'intermittent fasting' and nobody would bat an eye. I'm glad you found something that works for you, but the logic here is not congruent.
- vinceguidry 7y ago
  Intermittent fasting is a pretty clear course of action, limiting your eating to a small time window over a 24 or 48 hour period. I certainly don't do that. What I'm doing now is very different than what I did before. When I get hungry, I eat. With IF, you have to wait for your feeding window.
  - RBerenguel 7y ago
    But, it’s pretty fluid as far as a diet goes. I usually do 16-8 fasting (eating window of 8 hours, I don’t have dinner, usually stop eating at 15 or 16) but if I feel like having dinner (happens on occasion) or if I have an event or conference, I’ll follow normal eating schedules and it doesn’t affect me much (surprisingly I’m more hungry in the morning if I had dinner).

StavrosK 7y ago

There is no "addictive mind". I am very much like your dad when it comes to food. I just can't not eat something close by, even when I'm not hungry, but I have no interest in alcohol, gambling, drugs, or any other kind of addiction. People can have trouble with one addictive thing (e.g. loot boxes) while they're completely fine with many other addictive things.

LocalH 7y ago
That doesn't mean there is no "addictive mind". Just that yours is not too far along that scale.
vinceguidry 7y ago
I don't think you're like my dad at all if that's the extent of your weakness for food. My dad will eat the three bags of cookies, then go rummaging through the fridge for ice cream, eat a whole half gallon, then get in his car and go to Krispy Kreme until his craving is satisfied. As bad as this is, his alcoholism was even worse while he was drinking. He's slowly, slowly getting better, year after year. One one hand it's a difference in degree and not in kind, on the other it's so much of a degree that it's effectively a difference in kind.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Possibly, but I still find it hard to believe that some people will get addicted to anything addictive. Maybe some people are more likely to get addicted, in general, but I don't think there are people who can't even eg use Instagram for fear of becoming addicted to it. Is there any research towards this?
  - vinceguidry 7y ago
    It's not the thing that's addictive, it's the mind that gets addicted. And the mind has to like something about it first, once it does, it goes to immense extremes to get as much of it as humanly possible. Before looking to research, maybe ask a few addicts what it's like to be them first? For my father it's about finding healthy outlets for his addictive tendencies. He likes no-carb because it allows him to not have to exercise willpower to stop eating, he can just eat as much as his stomach will allow, and not trigger an insulin response. He knows it's not going to cause him to lose a ton of weight because he's still eating a ton of calories, but the little wins are important to him. Slowly he acquires more willpower in a context of a lifestyle where he doesn't have to be making those decisions all the time.
  - kungtotte 7y ago
    There's a great documentary by Russell Brand (From Addiction to Recovery, it's on Netflix) where he visits a neurological research facility in Britain where they've seen pretty clear evidence that a percentage of the population are more prone to become addicted; to anything that is. They are the kinds of people who could get addicted to Instagram due to the dopamine hit.

karlp 7y ago

> But eventually I realized this has to become my mother-effing lifestyle if I want to keep looking that way. This is so true, people judge you for not looking like a Hollywood actor (whether you're a man or a woman) but don't realize what it costs to look that way

toyg 7y ago
When you read up on actors' routines and how they vary pre/post shoot, you understand it's all utterly unsustainable - they do it because it's their job, it's part of their working day. If your boss told you to use docker on project X, you'd learn docker and do it; their boss tells them to lose 20 pounds and look trim, or gain 20 pounds and look fatty, and they do it for the few months required to complete the project, with all sorts of expensive medical help. You don't see how they look inbetween projects, nor do you see the ones that stop being leads (or never make it) because they cannot keep up the effort.
- brianwawok 7y ago
  That said, there is a pretty wide gulf between Paid actor who works out 30h a week and Never worked out, 200 pounds overweight I try to at least put 5 hours a week into bridging the gap ;) (sometimes fail :( )
  - toyg 7y ago
    Of course, but my point was that not even Hemsworth and Jackman can look like Thor and Wolverine all year round. Even Mr. Olympian has to vary his diet to look good on trophy day. So, in practice, a regular person will never fully bridge the gap, and judging him/her by those unrealistic parameters is just unreasonable.
- EGreg 7y ago
  By the way, this has as much to say about capitalism as a way to organize human activity, an even more interestingly en masse, making people do what they otherwise wouldn’t, because “their boss said so”. A command economy can be found in many places. Sometimes an entire country engages in it (such as came out in the Nurenburg trials). Anyone remember what Xanatos said to Owen in Gargoyles right after finding the castle in the series opening?

preommr 7y ago

> I was svelte Is this just me experiencing the baader-meinhof effect or did you get inspired to use this after learning about the framework?

jiveturkey 7y ago
ironic that you cite 'baader-meinhof' as if it is commonly known, but think 'svelte' is arcane.
- preommr 7y ago
  Anyone on reddit for more than 6 months will be familiar with that term since it comes up in subs like r/til every other week. It's definitely not some super common term but I am guessing the overlap between hn and reddit is large enough that most people here would be familiar with it. On the other hand, I don't think I've ever seen anyone use svelte in common parlance in my lifetime.
CydeWeys 7y ago
Svelte is a common-enough English word?
mbroncano 7y ago
I could only guess that for OP English is a second language, the word is quite common in a number of European languages.
- vinceguidry 7y ago
  Wow, who know what a less-than-common word choice would drive people to think. I now want a vocabulary study list of words that are just common enough to not be archaic but not so common they won't not cause this reaction, and then put one or two of them in every social media post.
  - mbroncano 7y ago
    I stand corrected, your grammar is certainly not the result of an European education system.

kennywinker 7y ago

Depending on your ages, and if you believe the lead-crime hypothesis, your dad may have been exposed to higher lead levels as a child - leading to poorer impulse control.

vinceguidry 7y ago
You know, I don't want to bare all of my dad's demons on social media. But yeah, there's an answer to that question.

kjaftaedi 7y ago

>But eventually I realized this has to become my mother-effing lifestyle >what I do now is to eat more deliberately and pay close attention to the feeling of satiety so I can stop eating. Ah yes, the old trick of avoiding a lifestyle change by adopting an exactly similar lifestyle change. The only person suggesting a certain lifestyle change need to be all or nothing, is you yourself. Intermittent fasting is the most non-all or nothing approach to eating that exists. The very definition of intermittent is telling you it's not constant. It's whatever you want it to be. In fact, you could call what you are doing right now 'intermittent fasting' and nobody would bat an eye. I'm glad you found something that works for you, but the logic here is not congruent.

vinceguidry 7y ago
Intermittent fasting is a pretty clear course of action, limiting your eating to a small time window over a 24 or 48 hour period. I certainly don't do that. What I'm doing now is very different than what I did before. When I get hungry, I eat. With IF, you have to wait for your feeding window.
- RBerenguel 7y ago
  But, it’s pretty fluid as far as a diet goes. I usually do 16-8 fasting (eating window of 8 hours, I don’t have dinner, usually stop eating at 15 or 16) but if I feel like having dinner (happens on occasion) or if I have an event or conference, I’ll follow normal eating schedules and it doesn’t affect me much (surprisingly I’m more hungry in the morning if I had dinner).