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Only 37 dogs of each breed can have the same name
- saghm 7y ago> Evidently they decided six characters gave them the best trade-off between flexibility and cost of typesetting? They didn't think that using Arabic rather than Roman numerals gave them a better tradeoff?
- protomyth 7y agoThese are names, and its traditional to use Roman numerals with names for people, and many treat dogs like people, so....
- thaumasiotes 7y agoThat analogy is broken; it's traditional to use Roman numerals to indicate that people hold the nth instance of the same name in a line of patrilineal descent (or, even more traditionally, a line of rulership). Roger White's son could be Roger White II; Roger White IV's son is definitely Roger White V. But two Roger Whites from separate families won't use numbers at all; both of them are just Roger White. The AKC is numbering unrelated dogs. And we appear to use arabic numerals for that use case: see https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/26880947/lee6-wins-us-women-open-pockets-1m https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/26880947/lee6-wins-us-w...
- tlb 7y agoNo descent is implied when numbers are used for monarchs and popes. John XXIII was the 23rd pope named John (20th century), a long time after John XXII in the 14th century. Queen Elizabeth II of England (current) is not a direct descendant from Queen Elizabeth I (16th century).
- thaumasiotes 7y agoDescent is implied, just not genealogical descent. John XXIII is the 23rd Pope John in the same line of papacy. Pope Benedict XIII (17th century) is the 13th Pope Benedict in that line, but Pope Benedict XIII (14th-15th century) was the 13th Pope Benedict in the line of Popes in Avignon. Henry IV of England was the fourth King Henry of England; Henry IV of France was the fourth King Henry of France; like the Popes, they are two different people tracked in two different lines of descent.
- badwolf 7y agoI suppose you could say it's similar with AKC dogs. Spot III the Chihuahua vs Spot III the Beagle
- thaumasiotes 7y agoWhat is the relationship between Spot III the beagle and Spot IV the beagle? There isn't one; they're named in parallel.
- LoSboccacc 7y agostorage is irrelevant to presentation. store the number as number and convert in Roman numerals on the front-end. even a short would run you up to 255
- yoz-y 7y agoThe problem here is not the storage but the presentation. 6 is the maximum allowed width of the column which shows the number associated with the dog’s name.
- JeremyBanks 7y agoIt's the AKC. Stupid traditions are the point.
- protomyth 7y agoYou know it is late or your mind is in a sad state when you picture the exact tables you would need to make this work in a relational database. It is amazing the amount of real versions of the apocryphal railroad width stories out in the world.
- dredmorbius 7y agoVaguely related: 1888 was the longest year in history, to date -- typographically as expressed in Roman numerals. Thirteen characters: MDCCCLXXXVIII. That record will stand until tied in 2388 (MMCCCLXXXVIII), and won't be exceeded until 2888 (MMDCCCLXXXVIII).
- function_seven 7y agoKids these days have it easy with their movie credits. In my day, you had to pause the tape to work out what year the movie was copyrighted. Die Hard: MCMLXXXVIII Avengers: Endgame: MMXIX
- tcbawo 7y agoRoman numerals remind me of that adage that obsolete technologies never really go away. There might be more people alive today that use Roman numerals than at the Roman empire's peak.
- interfixus 7y agoIn my day, you didn't have any tape, so you got frantic, working out the numeral before the memory faded. This was really the way I learned whatever meagre roman numerical skills I possess.
- mongol 7y agoWhy do movie credits use roman numerals for production year in the first place?
- dredmorbius 7y agoPossibly: "deception theory". https://web.archive.org/web/20120822041637/https://newsblaze.com/story/20120820063820ssid.nb/topstory.html https://web.archive.org/web/20120822041637/https://newsblaze... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1934990.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1934990.stm
- Jedd 7y ago
- function_seven 7y agoWhat problems would arise if they skipped numbers that exceed the 6 characters? Like, go from 37 to 39 (XXXIX). Then you have a solid run until you run into 78. And 78 ought to be enough for anyone.
- yorwba 7y agoThe Dog Name Check Tool is very clear on that matter: "Roman numerals must not be included at the end of the dog's name. The AKC reserves the right to assign roman numerals for identification purposes." "The name you have chosen contains the restricted word 'XXXIX' which cannot be used." However... "King XXXX has been verified for use for this breed." So numbers from 40 onwards are not rejected by the automatic check. I don't know whether an application would be handled by a human who might notice this, though.
- williamdclt 7y ago40 is XL, not XXXX. "King XL" is rejected (and sounds like a condom brand)
- yorwba 7y agoOk, it seems like they only recognize subtractive notation. Nonetheless, numbers from L onward seem to work, so if you want that distinct "roman numeral" look, you could choose "King LXVII".
- ratmice 7y agoFor some reason i would be suprised if they check for unicode roman numerals, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerals_in_Unicode#Roman_numerals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerals_in_Unicode#Roman_nume...
- yorwba 7y agoThey don't check for them, they just forcibly convert them into ASCII by taking the lowest byte of the Unicode code point, turning "ⅠⅡⅢⅣⅤⅥⅦⅧⅨⅩⅪⅫⅬⅭⅮⅯⅰⅱⅲⅳⅴⅵⅶⅷⅸⅹⅺⅻⅼⅽⅾⅿ" into "`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~\x7f". A few of these characters get rejected, though curiously not the last one, which is nonprintable.
- jancsika 7y agoWhat if any are the restrictions on characters in the dog's name? GOODBOY_FLUFFBALL_TAILWAGGER_DOGGO_BESTY_4EVAEVA~1 GOODBOY_FLUFFBALL_TAILWAGGER_DOGGO_BESTY_4EVAEVA~2 Etc.
- logicallee 7y agoNo dog may be called exactly "con" or "aux" :) (kidding)
- anticensor 7y agoA pet called com1 may experience burocratic issues. /s
- bloopernova 7y agoFrom now, I'm going to call my dogs by UUID. There's a lot of very cur-mudgeonly comments on this post. It's just a little quirk of someone's sort of database, and a little lesson in designing in flexibility.
- bscphil 7y agoKind of a weird, deceiving title choice. There's no rule or law anywhere requiring this ... you can name your dog whatever you want. Apparently there is an organization called the AKC (never heard of it) which allows you to register your dog. Their record-keeping system can only hold 37 dogs of each name / breed combination because of old technological requirement. So if you have a dog you want to register with this specific organization for whatever reason, there might be limitations on what you can name it. That's much less interesting to me than the title suggests. Does everyone register their dog with this organization for some reason? I'm not sure why you'd want to do that.
- notimetorelax 7y agoIt's American Kennel Club that maintains registry of purebred dog pedigrees. Sounds quite important if you breed dogs.
- dagenix 7y agoI think "deceiving title choice" is a bit strong. Of course you can name your dog whatever you want. I highly doubt that anyone read this and actually thought that there was some sort of global law requiring this. > That's much less interesting to me than the title suggests. I'm having a hard time imagining some more interesting, plausible thing that you thought the title suggested.
- bscphil 7y agoFair enough, I suppose I should have worded my complaint the other way around. A better title would have been "Why only 37 dogs of each breed can have the same name registered at the American Kennel Club". Self-diagnosing a little, I think my skeptical attitude towards institutions is acting up here. It's weird to me when people use "name" when what they really mean is "name registered with institution X". I don't see why anyone should care what the AKC thinks of their dog's name, in kind of the same way that registering a name for a star in a star registry is similarly stupid.
- pvaldes 7y ago
- maxander 7y agoA quirk of an old, badly implemented database... from before the days of databases.
- Maxious 7y agoYou can still make a varchar(7) column if you want
- systemtrigger 7y agoThis part: They're: Spot I Spot II ... is not quite correct. The AKC does not assign a number to the first one. Open the Dog Name Check [1]. Pick a breed, enter a unique dog name, and the page will report it is available. Now pick a semi-unique combination ("Shih Tzu" + "King") and the page will say "The name chosen has been used previously, but may be used with the following change: King XXXVII." This implies the first person to pick "King" got "King" and the second person got "King II." One dog per breed can have the name Spot/King/etc. But the AKC is a rent-seeking monopoly and 6 Roman numerals is short enough to still appear somewhat exclusive. [1] https://www.apps.akc.org/apps/reg/namecheck/index.cfm https://www.apps.akc.org/apps/reg/namecheck/index.cfm
- hirsin 7y agoSo it's an off by one error in the post?
- Svip 7y agoI think it's more like how it's Pope Francis and not Pope Francis I, since he's the first Pope Francis, you don't add the number. We will only do that after the fact, i.e. when another pope chooses the name Francis. So grandparent's point isn't that it's off by one, but that the first name is inaccurate for the time it was rewarded. Although, considering we are viewing it _after the fact_, i.e. now that more dogs are called the same, I think it's fair to add the "I" at the end.
- Taniwha 7y agomaybe they allow XXX1X (ie 39 but not 38)
- everdev 7y agoNo, they only allow 6 characters for the number of the dog. To write 38 in Roman numerals requires 7 characters. So that's why they only allow 37 of the same name.
- tobiasSoftware 7y agoNo, Spot II is still Spot II, but Spot I should be Spot.
- GICodeWarrior 7y agoWhen I saw "purebred" and "AKC", my mind immediately went to: The Bizarre Truth About Purebred Dogs (and Why Mutts Are Better) - Adam Ruins Everything https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCv10_WvGxo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCv10_WvGxo
- 2muchcoffeeman 7y agohttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/7620507.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/7620507.stm
- goldenkey 7y agoShelters are full of dogs that breeders surrender because the offspring weren't to their liking or diseased or imbred. It's quite sad and we shouldn't be supporting purebred breeders anymore. They are trading other creatures' pain for their own gain and profit :-/
- dymk 7y agoShelters are also full of dogs with severe behavioral disorders which can't be treated or managed effectively. How confident are you in selecting a shelter dog which might live with you for another 10, 12 years, versus a dog from a breeder that you know the genealogy of (and therefore the parents, grandparents behavioral traits)? There's a difference between buying from a backyard breeder who doesn't care about the quality of dogs they're producing, and a quality breeder who vets buyers, parental lines, and has offspring contracts to prevent future unwanted litters.
- craigsmansion 7y agoSorry, but no. Breeders, even if ethical, are part of the problem. Just because they try and reduce the chance of genetic defects by avoiding direct inbreeding, it's still a minor statistical manipulation. > (and therefore the parents, grandparents behavioral traits)? Behavioural traits (with very few exceptions) vary more widely in between individuals within a breed than from breed to breed. I know people can get very defensive about their best friends, but purebreds will have genetic deficiencies. That's no reason to love your current pooch any less, but do give cross-breeds some consideration for your next member of the pack. As silly as "labradoodle" sounds, these people have the right idea.
- topicseed 7y agoMost AKC-registered dogs belong to a breeder's kennel or bloodline. You never really register "Max" to the AKC. You generally register Hilly Billy's Max The Beau. Even if at home you just use Max, and Hilly Billy is the kennel affix. It is a little like horses, and their insane official names.
- jlawson 7y agoNow I want to hear more about insane official horse names... DDGing it didn't get me anywhere.
- gshdg 7y agoBasically, no two thoroughbreds can be registered with the same name. Basically the same issue.
- komali2 7y agoAt first I thought "if people can come up with unique WiFi hotspot names how hard could it be to come up with a unique horse name" but then I remembered I've basically seen the same five wifi hotspot jokes repeated ad nauseum over the years.
- ceejayoz 7y agoNow I'm wondering if there's been a racehorse called "FBI Surveillance Van".
- jlawson 7y agoI guess I just don't see why that would cause the names to be "Insane". Random pet first name + owner's last name/sire's name seems fine.
- stordoff 7y agoSimilar in the UK. My old dogs were registered as something like "Amyandas Golden Hind" and "Amyandas Golden Blend", which are obviously not their 'actual' names.
- wmeredith 7y agoUgh, this story interesting but I despise Twitter’s UI. Why is this being told through this medium?
- codegladiator 7y agoMeanwhile, I get a "you have been rate limited"... Which I don't understand, opening a Twitter link for first time in the last 4 days (been traveling)... Wasn't expecting this.
- casefields 7y agohttps://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1139737041162272768.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1139737041162272768.html
- EugeneOZ 7y agoYou will be surprised, but not only americans have dogs.