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This touches on an interesting change in the trend of conspiracy theories. To quote an article from The New Yorker: >“Classic” conspiracy theories, according t

This touches on an interesting change in the trend of conspiracy theories. To quote an article from The New Yorker: >“Classic” conspiracy theories, according to Muirhead and Rosenblum, arise in response to real events—the assassination of John F. Kennedy, say, or the terrorist attacks of September 11th. Such theories, they argue, constitute a form of explanation, however inaccurate they may be. What sets theories like QAnon apart is a lack of interest in explanation. Indeed, as with the nonexistent child-trafficking ring being run out of the nonexistent basement, “there is often nothing to explain.” The professors observe, “The new conspiracism sometimes seems to arise out of thin air.” >The constituency, too, has shifted. Historically, Muirhead and Rosenblum maintain, it’s been out-of-power groups that have been drawn to tales of secret plots. Today, it’s those in power who insist the game is rigged, and no one more insistently than the so-called leader of the free world. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/04/22/whats-new-about-conspiracy-theories https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/04/22/whats-new-abou... It's almost like society in the US (mainly) has become so fractured that some in-power-groups actually think they're the underdogs.

krapp 7y ago
>It's almost like society in the US (mainly) has become so fractured that some in-power-groups actually think they're the underdogs. Well yes. White people believing they're underdogs oppressed by multiculturalism and shifting demographics, Christians believing they're underdogs oppressed by secularism, and men believing they're underdogs oppressed by feminism all form the spiritual and sociological genesis of modern alt-right and anti-progressive identity politics. The most politically and culturally powerful demographic in human history (the straight white Christian American male) views itself as history's most existentially oppressed minority. When they look at the groups they perceive to be their enemies they see a consistent narrative of power being gained through struggle, and the solidarity that comes from the persecution complex. Thus, every argument by those enemies is adopted, inverted and weaponized against them. Black people are oppressed by a racist system? No - black people are the oppressors, just look at BLM, they're shooting white people in the streets. Everyone hates white people now, but what's wrong with being white? Why don't all lives matter? Women are oppressed by a sexist, patriarchal society? No - women have gained so much power and control through feminism that the world is now effectively a global matriarchy and men are being oppressed so much that they're being cucked and driven to suicide en masse. LGBT people are being oppressed? No, society is being forced to accept these alternate lifestyles as normative due to the overwhelming influence of the gay agenda and constant pro-gay propaganda in the media pushing it down everyone's throats, and people who support traditional values are having their rights to free speech, association and religion suppressed. And also they're putting chemicals in the water to turn the frogs gay. Etc.
- makomk 7y ago
  Well, most of the people who talk about how the white cis straight men have all the power don't seem to believe it either. They keep on calling for all the supposedly white cis male controlled tech companies to police everyone's speech, and even for the white cis male police and government to step in, confident that all that policing will follow their own supposedly-powerless views and stamp out those of their supposedly far more powerful eneimes. The very idea that it might go the other way is seen as so absurd that only a concern troll trying to help the other side would suggest such a thing.
- anongraddebt 7y ago
  For the record, while I am a straight white American male, I'm a political nihilist in the epistemological sense that I don't think there is any mind-independent truth to be found in politics. I'm a moral realist, though. To your point about heterosexual religious white people projecting an identity of oppression: is that the average member of the alt-right? Also, from the comments in this thread, it seems that being the 'counterculture' is somehow noble, positive, 'on the right side of history', etc. I don't see why anyone should assume that. Lastly, in relatively free societies like the U.S. currently is (and has been for the past couple decades), whatever the counterculture is, it clearly isn't oppressed. I said Atheism was edgy in the 90's, and suggested it was part of the 90's counterculture. Atheists were clearly not oppressed in the 90's, just like the alt-right is quite clearly not oppressed.
  - krapp 7y ago
    >To your point about heterosexual religious white people projecting an identity of oppression: is that the average member of the alt-right? Probably not, given that I'm describing an extreme viewpoint. I've encountered alt-right people who reject the white supremacist elements of the movement but still identify for various political reasons. But the narrative of oppression is still part of the identity politics of these movements, given their reactionary nature. The modern men's rights movement, which includes incels, redpillers, MGTOW, etc (the movement itself being older) isn't merely a criticism of, or alternative to, feminism, but a reaction to the perceived oppression of men by feminists. Anti-progressivism and anti-multiculturalism are reactions to the perceived oppression of conservatives, Christians and white people by leftists and other races and ethnic groups. This phenomenon was covered in the mainstream media during Trump's campaign - the narrative of his success being portrayed as a successful anti-establishment revolution by the disenfranchised "rural white male" that felt betrayed by globalism and the loss of white majority power.
anongraddebt 7y ago
Be specific. Are you saying that the edgy and vitriolic people who populate places like 4chan and 8chan are currently the in-power-group in America? If they are in fact the in-power-group, then why isn't David Duke making the rounds on CNN, The Tonight Show, Ellen, and SNL?

krapp 7y ago

>It's almost like society in the US (mainly) has become so fractured that some in-power-groups actually think they're the underdogs. Well yes. White people believing they're underdogs oppressed by multiculturalism and shifting demographics, Christians believing they're underdogs oppressed by secularism, and men believing they're underdogs oppressed by feminism all form the spiritual and sociological genesis of modern alt-right and anti-progressive identity politics. The most politically and culturally powerful demographic in human history (the straight white Christian American male) views itself as history's most existentially oppressed minority. When they look at the groups they perceive to be their enemies they see a consistent narrative of power being gained through struggle, and the solidarity that comes from the persecution complex. Thus, every argument by those enemies is adopted, inverted and weaponized against them. Black people are oppressed by a racist system? No - black people are the oppressors, just look at BLM, they're shooting white people in the streets. Everyone hates white people now, but what's wrong with being white? Why don't all lives matter? Women are oppressed by a sexist, patriarchal society? No - women have gained so much power and control through feminism that the world is now effectively a global matriarchy and men are being oppressed so much that they're being cucked and driven to suicide en masse. LGBT people are being oppressed? No, society is being forced to accept these alternate lifestyles as normative due to the overwhelming influence of the gay agenda and constant pro-gay propaganda in the media pushing it down everyone's throats, and people who support traditional values are having their rights to free speech, association and religion suppressed. And also they're putting chemicals in the water to turn the frogs gay. Etc.

makomk 7y ago
Well, most of the people who talk about how the white cis straight men have all the power don't seem to believe it either. They keep on calling for all the supposedly white cis male controlled tech companies to police everyone's speech, and even for the white cis male police and government to step in, confident that all that policing will follow their own supposedly-powerless views and stamp out those of their supposedly far more powerful eneimes. The very idea that it might go the other way is seen as so absurd that only a concern troll trying to help the other side would suggest such a thing.
anongraddebt 7y ago
For the record, while I am a straight white American male, I'm a political nihilist in the epistemological sense that I don't think there is any mind-independent truth to be found in politics. I'm a moral realist, though. To your point about heterosexual religious white people projecting an identity of oppression: is that the average member of the alt-right? Also, from the comments in this thread, it seems that being the 'counterculture' is somehow noble, positive, 'on the right side of history', etc. I don't see why anyone should assume that. Lastly, in relatively free societies like the U.S. currently is (and has been for the past couple decades), whatever the counterculture is, it clearly isn't oppressed. I said Atheism was edgy in the 90's, and suggested it was part of the 90's counterculture. Atheists were clearly not oppressed in the 90's, just like the alt-right is quite clearly not oppressed.
- krapp 7y ago
  >To your point about heterosexual religious white people projecting an identity of oppression: is that the average member of the alt-right? Probably not, given that I'm describing an extreme viewpoint. I've encountered alt-right people who reject the white supremacist elements of the movement but still identify for various political reasons. But the narrative of oppression is still part of the identity politics of these movements, given their reactionary nature. The modern men's rights movement, which includes incels, redpillers, MGTOW, etc (the movement itself being older) isn't merely a criticism of, or alternative to, feminism, but a reaction to the perceived oppression of men by feminists. Anti-progressivism and anti-multiculturalism are reactions to the perceived oppression of conservatives, Christians and white people by leftists and other races and ethnic groups. This phenomenon was covered in the mainstream media during Trump's campaign - the narrative of his success being portrayed as a successful anti-establishment revolution by the disenfranchised "rural white male" that felt betrayed by globalism and the loss of white majority power.

anongraddebt 7y ago

Be specific. Are you saying that the edgy and vitriolic people who populate places like 4chan and 8chan are currently the in-power-group in America? If they are in fact the in-power-group, then why isn't David Duke making the rounds on CNN, The Tonight Show, Ellen, and SNL?