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> holes in the ozone layer Funny you mention that. No one needed to panic, 1980s politicians appeared to remember what some of their job was. Two rather right

> holes in the ozone layer Funny you mention that. No one needed to panic, 1980s politicians appeared to remember what some of their job was. Two rather right leaning free-market monetarist politicians - Thatcher and Reagan - championed international action to phase out freon and other CFCs. Very successfully. The ozone hole closed. At the exact same time Thatcher was making speeches - to the UN and many others about the need for strong international action on climate. That was less successful. Had anyone bothered to listen we might have sorted emissions by now. Here's one snippet from her 1989 UN speech[1]: "We should work through this great organisation and its agencies to secure world-wide agreements on ways to cope with the effects of climate change, the thinning of the Ozone Layer, and the loss of precious species. We need a realistic programme of action and an equally realistic timetable. Each country has to contribute, and those countries who are industrialised must contribute more to help those who are not." How prescient. > sea levels world rise 100m during the next decade He did not say that. [1] https://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/107817 https://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/107817

samcday 7y ago
I wish more of the comments here were like this. Most of my comments are rubbish troll-bait, I'm glad people like NeedMoreTea exist. Someone who can calmly and rationally make a series of excellent points grounded in fact and history :)
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  :)
wtdata 7y ago
The thing is, those Thatcher speeches (and of course all the movement in Europe) worked, we reduced our emissions by almost 30% in 30 years. Which makes it specially bad when a bunch of people from the comfort of their life in here, now decide they can go around with their extremist views of environmentalism causing havoc in no less than in an European country: i.e. the only set of industrialized countries that actually addressed the problem. https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/eu/ https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/eu/ And my post was not about not taking measures, but about the catastrophic scenarios we keep being presented. > The ozone hole closed. Well, the thing is my point is exactly the exaggeration of those catastrophic scenarios: 1: we kept being told the hole would take hundreds of years to close even if we completely shuted down all CFC emissions at the time. 2: China continues to emit CFCs: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-44738952 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-44738952
- samcday 7y ago
  You made a similar point about China in one of the other siblings. But now you've expanded it to the point where you're contradicting yourself. On the one hand, you're saying that trying to tackle climate change in the UK is pointless because China is contributing the lion's share of CO2. But then on the other hand you're equating the climate change crisis to crises that have come before and were proven to be exaggerated scenarios. It might be worth you stating where you stand on climate change, otherwise I'm not really sure what points you're actually trying to make.
  - wtdata 7y ago
    No there is nothing contradictory, the points are simple: 1: These catastrophic scenarios have historically been great exaggerations of reality. 2: The major culprit at the moment, by a long margin, is China, while the EU has actually a very good track in reducing CO2 emissions.
    - samcday 7y ago
      Okay, thanks for restating. 1. Yep, I somewhat agree. So can you please clarify your stance as to whether the current climate change situation is another example? 2. Yep, and I sincerely hope China also pulls their heads out of their collective asses. However, the UK is also not out of the woods yet [1]. Just because China has a long way to go doesn't mean any other country should be easing off the gas pedal (terrible pun, hope you'll forgive me). [1]: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/9779945/8-08052019-AP-EN.pdf/9594d125-9163-446c-b650-b2b00c531d2b https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/9779945/8-08...
      - wtdata 7y ago
        My stance on the current global warming is that it is real and that it is serious, but not nearly as catastrophic as the media and these more extremist environmentalists, present it. i.e. If all other countries would go on a steady course of diminishing their emissions for about 1%/year like the EU has been doing for the past 3 decades, the problem will be addressed.

samcday 7y ago

I wish more of the comments here were like this. Most of my comments are rubbish troll-bait, I'm glad people like NeedMoreTea exist. Someone who can calmly and rationally make a series of excellent points grounded in fact and history :)

NeedMoreTea 7y ago
:)

wtdata 7y ago

The thing is, those Thatcher speeches (and of course all the movement in Europe) worked, we reduced our emissions by almost 30% in 30 years. Which makes it specially bad when a bunch of people from the comfort of their life in here, now decide they can go around with their extremist views of environmentalism causing havoc in no less than in an European country: i.e. the only set of industrialized countries that actually addressed the problem. https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/eu/ https://climateactiontracker.org/countries/eu/ And my post was not about not taking measures, but about the catastrophic scenarios we keep being presented. > The ozone hole closed. Well, the thing is my point is exactly the exaggeration of those catastrophic scenarios: 1: we kept being told the hole would take hundreds of years to close even if we completely shuted down all CFC emissions at the time. 2: China continues to emit CFCs: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-44738952 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-44738952

samcday 7y ago
You made a similar point about China in one of the other siblings. But now you've expanded it to the point where you're contradicting yourself. On the one hand, you're saying that trying to tackle climate change in the UK is pointless because China is contributing the lion's share of CO2. But then on the other hand you're equating the climate change crisis to crises that have come before and were proven to be exaggerated scenarios. It might be worth you stating where you stand on climate change, otherwise I'm not really sure what points you're actually trying to make.
- wtdata 7y ago
  No there is nothing contradictory, the points are simple: 1: These catastrophic scenarios have historically been great exaggerations of reality. 2: The major culprit at the moment, by a long margin, is China, while the EU has actually a very good track in reducing CO2 emissions.
  - samcday 7y ago
    Okay, thanks for restating. 1. Yep, I somewhat agree. So can you please clarify your stance as to whether the current climate change situation is another example? 2. Yep, and I sincerely hope China also pulls their heads out of their collective asses. However, the UK is also not out of the woods yet [1]. Just because China has a long way to go doesn't mean any other country should be easing off the gas pedal (terrible pun, hope you'll forgive me). [1]: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/9779945/8-08052019-AP-EN.pdf/9594d125-9163-446c-b650-b2b00c531d2b https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/9779945/8-08...
    - wtdata 7y ago
      My stance on the current global warming is that it is real and that it is serious, but not nearly as catastrophic as the media and these more extremist environmentalists, present it. i.e. If all other countries would go on a steady course of diminishing their emissions for about 1%/year like the EU has been doing for the past 3 decades, the problem will be addressed.