4 ms·

I don't have a question, though I do have a suggestion, Patrick. At risk of spreading yourself too thin, you could leverage your fame among the crowd at both ha

I don't have a question, though I do have a suggestion, Patrick. At risk of spreading yourself too thin, you could leverage your fame among the crowd at both hacker news and Joel's forum to deliver a how-to ebook in which you summarize and methodically organize advice on how to go from zero to hero with a software product. If you were to sell such an ebook at somewhere around $29-49, you could very easily stand to make make six figures out of it.

tptacek 16y ago
Dear Patrick, Please write an ebook for $49. I will buy two of them. Love, Your consulting client who now feels like he overpaid.
- jackowayed 16y ago
  I've got a question for you and Patrick. It seems like a lot of the HN elite (you two, cperciva, jacquesm, etc) know each other to some extent. Is this because you had preexisting relationships, because you guys emailed each other after seeing each other's HN comments and submissions, or because there's some kind of secret HNers With High Karma group? If it's the latter, is 4k karma enough to join? ;)
  - btilly 16y ago
    If there is such a club, I haven't been informed of it. (Karma over 9K.)
    - awa 16y ago
      (Looks at karma of tptacek and patio11) Well you need to have karma >20k to know about the club. >35K to join it :P
      - btilly 16y ago
        Ah. Well at that rate, I'll be allowed to know about it in 2012 or so. If the goalposts haven't moved by then. :-)
      - wglb 16y ago
        Really not true. I have the karma of a simple country boy. As a HN reader, I read many of tptacek's comments, and in particular his invitation in his profile to "Don't apologize for contacting me! I'm happy to meet you." So I ran into him at HN Chicago, we talked, one thing led to another, and now I work at Matasano. So you know about the club by reaching out to anyone you find interesting. I am not a member of any other group that is as friendly and accessible as this one here.
  - detst 16y ago
    Just my own observation from the comments over time: tptacek and patio11 probably met here, both have Chicago connections, met in person and now have done business together. tptacek and cperciva are both in the security/crypto world. Don't know where they met but get the impression that they would have some connections regardless of HN. Not sure about any connections outside of HN with jacquesm. The way I see it, the HN "elite" spend a fair amount of time here, build relationships based on similar interests here on HN (maybe eventually in real life) and then appear to everyone else as if they've always know each other.
  - rms 16y ago
    One of the main differences in the early days of Hacker News was that it was small enough that you could recognize all of the names. The ones with high karma get recognized more by virtue of seeing them post more often.
    - steveklabnik 16y ago
      I'd argue that you can still recognize the names of most of /leaders, simply because they post often enough. Or maybe I'm just exceptionally good at remembering usernames. Also, to your parent, pretty much everyone I've ever emailed from HN has been friendly, and the ones I've met in real life have been great, too. Familiarity is the way that community is built. I've emailed all of those HNers except Colin before, when appropriate, and I still randomly know cpercival's name.
  - ig1 16y ago
    I think given the nature of the software and startup world it's not unlikely for people to meet each other. I'm pretty sure most people on HN will be connected to each within one-two degrees of separation. I know I'm connected with tptacek by one degree and linkedin tells me I'm connected to patrick within two degrees through two different people. Someone should write a six degrees of HN app :-)
  - tptacek 16y ago
    I met Patrick last year when he came back to Chicago for Christmas. It turns out he used to live in the parish directly adjacent to mine on the south side. I'm a fan of his work and so jumped at the chance to work with him. At this point I'd call him a friend. He brought us cranberry bread! I like Colin and all, but have never met him. We tend to talk to each other a lot because we have very similar interests. You're as likely to see us bickering with each other as not. I don't really know Jacques at all. Any time you're in Chicago, look me up; I'm happy to buy coffee (we're on top of an excellent coffee shop downtown). I met a different HN person every other month or so just doing that.
    - cperciva 16y ago
      You're as likely to see us bickering with each other as not. I prefer to call it debating. :-)
  - cperciva 16y ago
    Looking down the /leaders list, I don't think I've met any of them in person, nor had a preexisting relationship with any of them. I've been in email contact with tptacek, RiderOfGiraffes, jgrahamc, epi0Bauqu and probably others for whom I don't have a HN name <-> email address mapping cached in my brain. But as other people have said, it all comes out of seeing each other's comments here. There is no secret cabal, unless you count the YC founders mailing list (which I'm not part of).
- acangiano 16y ago
  This is akin to say that you'd feel like you overpaid (or wouldn't hire) a programmer, given that he wrote a book on a subject that you could study and then use to implement the code. A book can contain actionable advice, but it's still somewhat limited and generic. The value of a consultant lies in his ability to apply his knowledge to your specific requirements. It's a personalized service that no book can replace. In fact, writing a book usually leads to more consultancy gigs and higher rates.
  - tptacek 16y ago
    If I wrote a book, our consulting rates would not go up.
patio11 16y ago
Probably not going to happen. Writing is a lot of work. Promotion is a lot of work which I generally dislike. I rather prefer doing stuff as opposed to being a paid commentator about doing stuff: it means I get to post on HN without having the implicit disclaimer "Trying to sell you his get-rich-quick-in-only-half-a-decade-for-values-of-rich-which-are-not-quite-rich guide." I also think, no offense, that HN is a terrible, terrible market to sell to. Among many other signs: if the price point a hypothetical customer goes to for "Actionable advice which stands to make my business a lot of money" is "thirty bucks", I have negative a billion desire to be in a business relationship with them. No offense intended to anybody here. Instead of spending six weeks writing and then a year wheedling people to part with their $50 as if that were a meaningful amount of money, I could pick up a phone tomorrow morning, call one of a couple CEOs, and say "So, still want my help?", and then do six weeks of consulting. There would be very little wheedling over $50 involved.
- acangiano 16y ago
  You said elsewhere that you like to be a product guy (where the income is passive). So writing an e-book and selling it wouldn't be that different from selling BCC. And unlike consulting you wouldn't have to travel. You make the initial investment in your pajamas at home, and then apply your own advice to promote it. I'm certain that it'd make far more money than BCC. Perhaps the value of my suggestion was lost in its specificity. It doesn't even have to be an e-book priced at $50. Do webinars/courses a la Frank Kern. Charge $1000-2000, and accept only up to 100 people. Record the all thing, and then sell it on DVD at a cheaper price, when the live course is over. My suggestion was to capitalize your "fame" to make some serious money and in the process help a great number of companies. Consulting is one way to do it, but there are less stressful, and more scalable ways in my opinion. PS: I only replied to clarify the scope of my suggestion. I don't want to convince you or interfere with your plans.
- jonpaul 16y ago
  Why is HN a terrible market?

tptacek 16y ago

Dear Patrick, Please write an ebook for $49. I will buy two of them. Love, Your consulting client who now feels like he overpaid.

jackowayed 16y ago
I've got a question for you and Patrick. It seems like a lot of the HN elite (you two, cperciva, jacquesm, etc) know each other to some extent. Is this because you had preexisting relationships, because you guys emailed each other after seeing each other's HN comments and submissions, or because there's some kind of secret HNers With High Karma group? If it's the latter, is 4k karma enough to join? ;)
- btilly 16y ago
  If there is such a club, I haven't been informed of it. (Karma over 9K.)
  - awa 16y ago
    (Looks at karma of tptacek and patio11) Well you need to have karma >20k to know about the club. >35K to join it :P
    - btilly 16y ago
      Ah. Well at that rate, I'll be allowed to know about it in 2012 or so. If the goalposts haven't moved by then. :-)
    - wglb 16y ago
      Really not true. I have the karma of a simple country boy. As a HN reader, I read many of tptacek's comments, and in particular his invitation in his profile to "Don't apologize for contacting me! I'm happy to meet you." So I ran into him at HN Chicago, we talked, one thing led to another, and now I work at Matasano. So you know about the club by reaching out to anyone you find interesting. I am not a member of any other group that is as friendly and accessible as this one here.
- detst 16y ago
  Just my own observation from the comments over time: tptacek and patio11 probably met here, both have Chicago connections, met in person and now have done business together. tptacek and cperciva are both in the security/crypto world. Don't know where they met but get the impression that they would have some connections regardless of HN. Not sure about any connections outside of HN with jacquesm. The way I see it, the HN "elite" spend a fair amount of time here, build relationships based on similar interests here on HN (maybe eventually in real life) and then appear to everyone else as if they've always know each other.
- rms 16y ago
  One of the main differences in the early days of Hacker News was that it was small enough that you could recognize all of the names. The ones with high karma get recognized more by virtue of seeing them post more often.
  - steveklabnik 16y ago
    I'd argue that you can still recognize the names of most of /leaders, simply because they post often enough. Or maybe I'm just exceptionally good at remembering usernames. Also, to your parent, pretty much everyone I've ever emailed from HN has been friendly, and the ones I've met in real life have been great, too. Familiarity is the way that community is built. I've emailed all of those HNers except Colin before, when appropriate, and I still randomly know cpercival's name.
- ig1 16y ago
  I think given the nature of the software and startup world it's not unlikely for people to meet each other. I'm pretty sure most people on HN will be connected to each within one-two degrees of separation. I know I'm connected with tptacek by one degree and linkedin tells me I'm connected to patrick within two degrees through two different people. Someone should write a six degrees of HN app :-)
- tptacek 16y ago
  I met Patrick last year when he came back to Chicago for Christmas. It turns out he used to live in the parish directly adjacent to mine on the south side. I'm a fan of his work and so jumped at the chance to work with him. At this point I'd call him a friend. He brought us cranberry bread! I like Colin and all, but have never met him. We tend to talk to each other a lot because we have very similar interests. You're as likely to see us bickering with each other as not. I don't really know Jacques at all. Any time you're in Chicago, look me up; I'm happy to buy coffee (we're on top of an excellent coffee shop downtown). I met a different HN person every other month or so just doing that.
  - cperciva 16y ago
    You're as likely to see us bickering with each other as not. I prefer to call it debating. :-)
- cperciva 16y ago
  Looking down the /leaders list, I don't think I've met any of them in person, nor had a preexisting relationship with any of them. I've been in email contact with tptacek, RiderOfGiraffes, jgrahamc, epi0Bauqu and probably others for whom I don't have a HN name <-> email address mapping cached in my brain. But as other people have said, it all comes out of seeing each other's comments here. There is no secret cabal, unless you count the YC founders mailing list (which I'm not part of).
acangiano 16y ago
This is akin to say that you'd feel like you overpaid (or wouldn't hire) a programmer, given that he wrote a book on a subject that you could study and then use to implement the code. A book can contain actionable advice, but it's still somewhat limited and generic. The value of a consultant lies in his ability to apply his knowledge to your specific requirements. It's a personalized service that no book can replace. In fact, writing a book usually leads to more consultancy gigs and higher rates.
- tptacek 16y ago
  If I wrote a book, our consulting rates would not go up.

patio11 16y ago

Probably not going to happen. Writing is a lot of work. Promotion is a lot of work which I generally dislike. I rather prefer doing stuff as opposed to being a paid commentator about doing stuff: it means I get to post on HN without having the implicit disclaimer "Trying to sell you his get-rich-quick-in-only-half-a-decade-for-values-of-rich-which-are-not-quite-rich guide." I also think, no offense, that HN is a terrible, terrible market to sell to. Among many other signs: if the price point a hypothetical customer goes to for "Actionable advice which stands to make my business a lot of money" is "thirty bucks", I have negative a billion desire to be in a business relationship with them. No offense intended to anybody here. Instead of spending six weeks writing and then a year wheedling people to part with their $50 as if that were a meaningful amount of money, I could pick up a phone tomorrow morning, call one of a couple CEOs, and say "So, still want my help?", and then do six weeks of consulting. There would be very little wheedling over $50 involved.

acangiano 16y ago
You said elsewhere that you like to be a product guy (where the income is passive). So writing an e-book and selling it wouldn't be that different from selling BCC. And unlike consulting you wouldn't have to travel. You make the initial investment in your pajamas at home, and then apply your own advice to promote it. I'm certain that it'd make far more money than BCC. Perhaps the value of my suggestion was lost in its specificity. It doesn't even have to be an e-book priced at $50. Do webinars/courses a la Frank Kern. Charge $1000-2000, and accept only up to 100 people. Record the all thing, and then sell it on DVD at a cheaper price, when the live course is over. My suggestion was to capitalize your "fame" to make some serious money and in the process help a great number of companies. Consulting is one way to do it, but there are less stressful, and more scalable ways in my opinion. PS: I only replied to clarify the scope of my suggestion. I don't want to convince you or interfere with your plans.
jonpaul 16y ago
Why is HN a terrible market?