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Rogan doesn't describe himself as "alt-right". Joe Rogan -Wikipedia says: He has "mostly libertarian views" and describes himself as "pretty liberal" and "supp

Rogan doesn't describe himself as "alt-right". Joe Rogan -Wikipedia says: He has "mostly libertarian views" and describes himself as "pretty liberal" and "supports gay marriage". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Rogan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Rogan Full paragraph here: "Rogan is not affiliated with any political party but was described as having mostly libertarian views.[67] He has described himself as being "pretty liberal" and supports gay marriage, gay rights, women's rights, recreational drug use, universal healthcare, and universal basic income, while also supporting the Second Amendment[68"

asdf9240 7y ago
He may be liberal or not, that is irrelevant. OP said was that he was a gateway to the alt-right, not alt-right himself.
- gamechangr 7y ago
  So is Sweden apparently... https://www.salon.com/2017/06/02/sweden-is-the-gateway-to-the-alt-right-anti-immigrant-agenda-in-europe_partner/ https://www.salon.com/2017/06/02/sweden-is-the-gateway-to-th...
eesmith 7y ago
And you regard this as strong counter-evidence to the claim about being a 'gateway to the alt-right'? First, 'libertarian' and 'right' are pretty compatible. See, for example, David Koch. At https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koch you'll see he also "considers himself a social liberal,[20] supporting women's right to choose,[21] gay rights, same-sex marriage and stem-cell research.[2][22] He opposes the war on drugs." He's also a global warming denialist and major funder of many conservative and Republican causes and candidates. Second, libertarianism is one gateway for the alt-right. I'll quote from the Wikipedia entry for alt-right, at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right : > There were also links between the American libertarian movement and the alt-right, despite libertarianism's general repudiation of identity politics.[55] Many senior alt-rightists previously considered themselves libertarians,[56] and the libertarian theorist Murray Rothbard has been cited as a particular link between the two movements due to his staunch anti-egalitarianism and support for ideas about differing IQ levels among racial groups. ... > After Spencer was fired from The American Conservative, in 2008 he became managing director of Taki Theodoracopulos's right-wing website Taki's Magazine.[73][74] The website initially contained contributions largely from paleoconservatives and libertarians, but under Spencer also gave space to white nationalists like Taylor.[75] In 2009, Spencer used the term "alternative right" in the title of an article by white nationalist Kevin DeAnna;[76][77] by 2010, Spencer had moved fully from paleoconservatism to white nationalism. ... > It was on websites like 4chan and Reddit that the term gained wider usage, and in 2015 began to grow in popularity.[91] Although there had previously been a strong left-libertarian contingent to these online spaces, there was a gradual rightward turn in chan culture centred on 4chan's politics board, /pol/. Of course "libertarian" does not mean "alt-right", and "not all libertarians." But the topic here was one of gateway to the alt-right. Since there is a notable connection between libertarian views and the progression towards alt-right, pointing out that someone has libertarian views is not counter-evidence.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- gamechangr 7y ago
  Good point on libertarian views having some overlap with a progression towards alt-right and/or not being counter evidence. Would 'supports gay marriage" be evidence? That seems far from 'alt-right' to me... is that fair?
  - eesmith 7y ago
    No? I mean, it seems that you are asking me if there's a litmus test that if someone (honestly) is in support of gay marriage therefore they and their actions cannot reasonably be interpreted providing a gateway towards accepting alt-right ideas? The Wikipedia page points out "On social issues like attitudes to homosexuality and abortion, the alt-right is divided ... Some on the alt-right consider homosexuality to be immoral and a threat to the survival of the white race ... Others adopt a more tolerant stance and have praised gay white nationalists" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right So, if 0.5% of alt-right, and 2% of alt-lite are in favor of gay marriage (numbers I pulled out of my ass), then clearly it's not conclusive evidence. However, since I believe David Koch supports gay marriage based on his libertarian beliefs, and he supports efforts that unfairly make it harder for black people to vote, and he support 'stand your ground' which have make it easier for white people to kill black people - both efforts which I believe are generally supported by the alt-right - then I've already given an example of how "supports gay marriage" is not clear evidence of not being a gateway.

asdf9240 7y ago

He may be liberal or not, that is irrelevant. OP said was that he was a gateway to the alt-right, not alt-right himself.

gamechangr 7y ago
So is Sweden apparently... https://www.salon.com/2017/06/02/sweden-is-the-gateway-to-the-alt-right-anti-immigrant-agenda-in-europe_partner/ https://www.salon.com/2017/06/02/sweden-is-the-gateway-to-th...

eesmith 7y ago

And you regard this as strong counter-evidence to the claim about being a 'gateway to the alt-right'? First, 'libertarian' and 'right' are pretty compatible. See, for example, David Koch. At https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koch you'll see he also "considers himself a social liberal,[20] supporting women's right to choose,[21] gay rights, same-sex marriage and stem-cell research.[2][22] He opposes the war on drugs." He's also a global warming denialist and major funder of many conservative and Republican causes and candidates. Second, libertarianism is one gateway for the alt-right. I'll quote from the Wikipedia entry for alt-right, at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right : > There were also links between the American libertarian movement and the alt-right, despite libertarianism's general repudiation of identity politics.[55] Many senior alt-rightists previously considered themselves libertarians,[56] and the libertarian theorist Murray Rothbard has been cited as a particular link between the two movements due to his staunch anti-egalitarianism and support for ideas about differing IQ levels among racial groups. ... > After Spencer was fired from The American Conservative, in 2008 he became managing director of Taki Theodoracopulos's right-wing website Taki's Magazine.[73][74] The website initially contained contributions largely from paleoconservatives and libertarians, but under Spencer also gave space to white nationalists like Taylor.[75] In 2009, Spencer used the term "alternative right" in the title of an article by white nationalist Kevin DeAnna;[76][77] by 2010, Spencer had moved fully from paleoconservatism to white nationalism. ... > It was on websites like 4chan and Reddit that the term gained wider usage, and in 2015 began to grow in popularity.[91] Although there had previously been a strong left-libertarian contingent to these online spaces, there was a gradual rightward turn in chan culture centred on 4chan's politics board, /pol/. Of course "libertarian" does not mean "alt-right", and "not all libertarians." But the topic here was one of gateway to the alt-right. Since there is a notable connection between libertarian views and the progression towards alt-right, pointing out that someone has libertarian views is not counter-evidence.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
gamechangr 7y ago
Good point on libertarian views having some overlap with a progression towards alt-right and/or not being counter evidence. Would 'supports gay marriage" be evidence? That seems far from 'alt-right' to me... is that fair?
- eesmith 7y ago
  No? I mean, it seems that you are asking me if there's a litmus test that if someone (honestly) is in support of gay marriage therefore they and their actions cannot reasonably be interpreted providing a gateway towards accepting alt-right ideas? The Wikipedia page points out "On social issues like attitudes to homosexuality and abortion, the alt-right is divided ... Some on the alt-right consider homosexuality to be immoral and a threat to the survival of the white race ... Others adopt a more tolerant stance and have praised gay white nationalists" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right So, if 0.5% of alt-right, and 2% of alt-lite are in favor of gay marriage (numbers I pulled out of my ass), then clearly it's not conclusive evidence. However, since I believe David Koch supports gay marriage based on his libertarian beliefs, and he supports efforts that unfairly make it harder for black people to vote, and he support 'stand your ground' which have make it easier for white people to kill black people - both efforts which I believe are generally supported by the alt-right - then I've already given an example of how "supports gay marriage" is not clear evidence of not being a gateway.