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So how does this work? If Joe Rogan is a "gateway to the alt-right" are you allowed to watch episodes where his guests are liberals or does that normalize his o

by bitlax 7y ago

So how does this work? If Joe Rogan is a "gateway to the alt-right" are you allowed to watch episodes where his guests are liberals or does that normalize his other stuff?

anbop 7y ago
Even allowing this link on this website is pretty close to hate speech.
- PostOnce 7y ago
  I take it we're hating on the man and not the content of any particular podcast? I've listened to the podcast repeatedly (Dan Carlin was a guest, that's how I found it), there's nothing alt-right about it, just right/conservative on issues of guns/hunting/gender, but not on issues of finance, for example. I guess "pro speech" is "alt right now". The guests are wide-ranging; some right, some alt-right, some far left.
  - s_Hogg 7y ago
    I dunno he had an episode with Alex Jones that basically didn't press him on anything and gave him a really soft ride. I think that's the sort of thing people are alluding to when they call him a breadcrumb-dropper. Just because the guests aren't uniformly Alex Jones and co doesn't mean that that claim can't be true, in my opinion.
    - cco 7y ago
      If you can watch that episode and not be laughing your head off you are taking life far too seriously.
  - anbop 7y ago
    Yeah, I don’t use /s tags, because I like to use the downvote count as a sort of inverse metric.
- howNearHowFar 7y ago
  I almost considered not posting this, knowing the the mobile ISP ban will default this to flagged/dead, but someone will probably still read it. I used to think HN carried informed, objective opinions of the world it collectively inhabited. Between this and today's 60+ reply 8ch.net warrant thread, I no longer see it in such a light. 5 years ago, HN wouldn't foment bile with obnoxious absurdities, downvote and hellban frivolously. Now it's a different story, and it's not The Internet that has changed. Things haven't changed that much.
throwaway66666 7y ago
What? Is he alt-right? I thought he's actually liberal leaning. Many of his episodes is about drugs and his experiences with psychedelics, which would make most conservative folks suspicious. Can you post something that elaborates into those claims?
- thrower123 7y ago
  Alt-right is a term devoid of meaning, it has been abused so badly and so often. No one can agree on what it means, so it cannot be parsed as anything more than "those people I don't like, who entertain bad thoughts."
  - perilunar 7y ago
    I don't think it's devoid of meaning, but its use is telling. It's usually used to refer to libertarians and classical liberals by those who don't understand them, i.e. it's often a sign of ignorance. Sometimes it's used deliberately as a smear to suggest people are fascists or neo-nazis.
- bitlax 7y ago
  I think the whole thing is asinine. Just wondering what the rules are this week.
- stebenCwowduhhh 7y ago
  It's because of the Steven Crowder episodes (especially #1071) where they watch hidden camera videos of transgender activists portrayed in bad light. [1] In those videos there seem to be some opportunists operating what could be viewed as a "grooming pedophile" mentality towards gender identity politics. Between that, and playing nice with Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro and other right-of-center pundits/intellectuals/scholars or whatever, it's a bridge to far for counter-extremists. Joe Rogan also generally professes a dim view toward ANTIFA activism. To some, that makes Joe Rogan worse than a "do nothing centrist" because he offers a preferential platform, while operating a moderate semi-centrist facade, in the far-left's view. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS_XL1tBnWw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS_XL1tBnWw
gamechangr 7y ago
Rogan doesn't describe himself as "alt-right". Joe Rogan -Wikipedia says: He has "mostly libertarian views" and describes himself as "pretty liberal" and "supports gay marriage". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Rogan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Rogan Full paragraph here: "Rogan is not affiliated with any political party but was described as having mostly libertarian views.[67] He has described himself as being "pretty liberal" and supports gay marriage, gay rights, women's rights, recreational drug use, universal healthcare, and universal basic income, while also supporting the Second Amendment[68"
- asdf9240 7y ago
  He may be liberal or not, that is irrelevant. OP said was that he was a gateway to the alt-right, not alt-right himself.
  - gamechangr 7y ago
    So is Sweden apparently... https://www.salon.com/2017/06/02/sweden-is-the-gateway-to-the-alt-right-anti-immigrant-agenda-in-europe_partner/ https://www.salon.com/2017/06/02/sweden-is-the-gateway-to-th...
- eesmith 7y ago
  And you regard this as strong counter-evidence to the claim about being a 'gateway to the alt-right'? First, 'libertarian' and 'right' are pretty compatible. See, for example, David Koch. At https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koch you'll see he also "considers himself a social liberal,[20] supporting women's right to choose,[21] gay rights, same-sex marriage and stem-cell research.[2][22] He opposes the war on drugs." He's also a global warming denialist and major funder of many conservative and Republican causes and candidates. Second, libertarianism is one gateway for the alt-right. I'll quote from the Wikipedia entry for alt-right, at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right : > There were also links between the American libertarian movement and the alt-right, despite libertarianism's general repudiation of identity politics.[55] Many senior alt-rightists previously considered themselves libertarians,[56] and the libertarian theorist Murray Rothbard has been cited as a particular link between the two movements due to his staunch anti-egalitarianism and support for ideas about differing IQ levels among racial groups. ... > After Spencer was fired from The American Conservative, in 2008 he became managing director of Taki Theodoracopulos's right-wing website Taki's Magazine.[73][74] The website initially contained contributions largely from paleoconservatives and libertarians, but under Spencer also gave space to white nationalists like Taylor.[75] In 2009, Spencer used the term "alternative right" in the title of an article by white nationalist Kevin DeAnna;[76][77] by 2010, Spencer had moved fully from paleoconservatism to white nationalism. ... > It was on websites like 4chan and Reddit that the term gained wider usage, and in 2015 began to grow in popularity.[91] Although there had previously been a strong left-libertarian contingent to these online spaces, there was a gradual rightward turn in chan culture centred on 4chan's politics board, /pol/. Of course "libertarian" does not mean "alt-right", and "not all libertarians." But the topic here was one of gateway to the alt-right. Since there is a notable connection between libertarian views and the progression towards alt-right, pointing out that someone has libertarian views is not counter-evidence.
finnthehuman 7y ago
“Joe isn't a bad guy. He genuinely wants to understand the world, and talks to everyone he can find in an attempt to do so. He's just a little too gullible and not quite introspective or rational enough to notice when the guest with the persuasive personality is saying crazy things. For example, he thinks LSD gives you dolphin telepathy.” (Stolen from reddit. On mobile, can’t link.)

by bitlax 7y ago

So how does this work? If Joe Rogan is a "gateway to the alt-right" are you allowed to watch episodes where his guests are liberals or does that normalize his other stuff?

anbop 7y ago

Even allowing this link on this website is pretty close to hate speech.

PostOnce 7y ago
I take it we're hating on the man and not the content of any particular podcast? I've listened to the podcast repeatedly (Dan Carlin was a guest, that's how I found it), there's nothing alt-right about it, just right/conservative on issues of guns/hunting/gender, but not on issues of finance, for example. I guess "pro speech" is "alt right now". The guests are wide-ranging; some right, some alt-right, some far left.
- s_Hogg 7y ago
  I dunno he had an episode with Alex Jones that basically didn't press him on anything and gave him a really soft ride. I think that's the sort of thing people are alluding to when they call him a breadcrumb-dropper. Just because the guests aren't uniformly Alex Jones and co doesn't mean that that claim can't be true, in my opinion.
  - cco 7y ago
    If you can watch that episode and not be laughing your head off you are taking life far too seriously.
- anbop 7y ago
  Yeah, I don’t use /s tags, because I like to use the downvote count as a sort of inverse metric.
howNearHowFar 7y ago
I almost considered not posting this, knowing the the mobile ISP ban will default this to flagged/dead, but someone will probably still read it. I used to think HN carried informed, objective opinions of the world it collectively inhabited. Between this and today's 60+ reply 8ch.net warrant thread, I no longer see it in such a light. 5 years ago, HN wouldn't foment bile with obnoxious absurdities, downvote and hellban frivolously. Now it's a different story, and it's not The Internet that has changed. Things haven't changed that much.

throwaway66666 7y ago

What? Is he alt-right? I thought he's actually liberal leaning. Many of his episodes is about drugs and his experiences with psychedelics, which would make most conservative folks suspicious. Can you post something that elaborates into those claims?

thrower123 7y ago
Alt-right is a term devoid of meaning, it has been abused so badly and so often. No one can agree on what it means, so it cannot be parsed as anything more than "those people I don't like, who entertain bad thoughts."
- perilunar 7y ago
  I don't think it's devoid of meaning, but its use is telling. It's usually used to refer to libertarians and classical liberals by those who don't understand them, i.e. it's often a sign of ignorance. Sometimes it's used deliberately as a smear to suggest people are fascists or neo-nazis.
bitlax 7y ago
I think the whole thing is asinine. Just wondering what the rules are this week.
stebenCwowduhhh 7y ago
It's because of the Steven Crowder episodes (especially #1071) where they watch hidden camera videos of transgender activists portrayed in bad light. [1] In those videos there seem to be some opportunists operating what could be viewed as a "grooming pedophile" mentality towards gender identity politics. Between that, and playing nice with Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro and other right-of-center pundits/intellectuals/scholars or whatever, it's a bridge to far for counter-extremists. Joe Rogan also generally professes a dim view toward ANTIFA activism. To some, that makes Joe Rogan worse than a "do nothing centrist" because he offers a preferential platform, while operating a moderate semi-centrist facade, in the far-left's view. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS_XL1tBnWw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS_XL1tBnWw

gamechangr 7y ago

Rogan doesn't describe himself as "alt-right". Joe Rogan -Wikipedia says: He has "mostly libertarian views" and describes himself as "pretty liberal" and "supports gay marriage". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Rogan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Rogan Full paragraph here: "Rogan is not affiliated with any political party but was described as having mostly libertarian views.[67] He has described himself as being "pretty liberal" and supports gay marriage, gay rights, women's rights, recreational drug use, universal healthcare, and universal basic income, while also supporting the Second Amendment[68"

asdf9240 7y ago
He may be liberal or not, that is irrelevant. OP said was that he was a gateway to the alt-right, not alt-right himself.
- gamechangr 7y ago
  So is Sweden apparently... https://www.salon.com/2017/06/02/sweden-is-the-gateway-to-the-alt-right-anti-immigrant-agenda-in-europe_partner/ https://www.salon.com/2017/06/02/sweden-is-the-gateway-to-th...
eesmith 7y ago
And you regard this as strong counter-evidence to the claim about being a 'gateway to the alt-right'? First, 'libertarian' and 'right' are pretty compatible. See, for example, David Koch. At https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koch you'll see he also "considers himself a social liberal,[20] supporting women's right to choose,[21] gay rights, same-sex marriage and stem-cell research.[2][22] He opposes the war on drugs." He's also a global warming denialist and major funder of many conservative and Republican causes and candidates. Second, libertarianism is one gateway for the alt-right. I'll quote from the Wikipedia entry for alt-right, at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right : > There were also links between the American libertarian movement and the alt-right, despite libertarianism's general repudiation of identity politics.[55] Many senior alt-rightists previously considered themselves libertarians,[56] and the libertarian theorist Murray Rothbard has been cited as a particular link between the two movements due to his staunch anti-egalitarianism and support for ideas about differing IQ levels among racial groups. ... > After Spencer was fired from The American Conservative, in 2008 he became managing director of Taki Theodoracopulos's right-wing website Taki's Magazine.[73][74] The website initially contained contributions largely from paleoconservatives and libertarians, but under Spencer also gave space to white nationalists like Taylor.[75] In 2009, Spencer used the term "alternative right" in the title of an article by white nationalist Kevin DeAnna;[76][77] by 2010, Spencer had moved fully from paleoconservatism to white nationalism. ... > It was on websites like 4chan and Reddit that the term gained wider usage, and in 2015 began to grow in popularity.[91] Although there had previously been a strong left-libertarian contingent to these online spaces, there was a gradual rightward turn in chan culture centred on 4chan's politics board, /pol/. Of course "libertarian" does not mean "alt-right", and "not all libertarians." But the topic here was one of gateway to the alt-right. Since there is a notable connection between libertarian views and the progression towards alt-right, pointing out that someone has libertarian views is not counter-evidence.

finnthehuman 7y ago

“Joe isn't a bad guy. He genuinely wants to understand the world, and talks to everyone he can find in an attempt to do so. He's just a little too gullible and not quite introspective or rational enough to notice when the guest with the persuasive personality is saying crazy things. For example, he thinks LSD gives you dolphin telepathy.” (Stolen from reddit. On mobile, can’t link.)