5 ms·

It doesn't get said very much but the ML ecosystem is full, complete, and very much production quality. It is a shame that there are not many projects or compan

It doesn't get said very much but the ML ecosystem is full, complete, and very much production quality. It is a shame that there are not many projects or companies that make use of all that it has to offer.

neilv 7y ago
Agreed, OCaml has looked good for a long time. And I have a similar feeling of sadness that Racket (or one of the other Scheme variants) isn't used more. I've wondered whether one of the barriers is still that students' only exposure to these is usually using it in school for some contrived homework assignments, and dismissing the tools for "real work" before they've tried applying them. (And at least some schools are emphasizing having students ready for internship/interview with popular languages now, so innovative languages can get even less attention.)
scriptkiddy 7y ago
I really want to use Ocaml for web application back-ends, but last time I checked the ecosystem around that in Ocaml is less than extensive compared to languages like Python, JS, java, etc. It really is a shame. I need to set aside some time to really dive deep into Ocaml and make a simple micro framework or something. From my small amount of exposure, I can say that I love Ocaml's expressiveness and flexibility.
- sambal 7y ago
  Did you check out F#? I’ve never personally used it, but I know it takes advantage of the .NET ecosystem (and with .NET Core, is no longer tied solely to windows).
- anuragsoni 7y ago
  There is some good work going on for the lower level pieces: https://github.com/anmonteiro/ocaml-h2 https://github.com/anmonteiro/ocaml-h2 - HTTP2 stack https://github.com/inhabitedtype/httpaf https://github.com/inhabitedtype/httpaf - HTTP stack For micro-frameworks there are a few options available like https://github.com/rgrinberg/opium https://github.com/rgrinberg/opium https://github.com/ostera/httpkit https://github.com/ostera/httpkit There are some scattered pieces in the ecosystem for routing, sessions etc but i agree that compared to Python, JS, etc the ecosystem might not look as cohesive or expansive for web applications. So there should definitely be room to have new solutions in this space
Barrin92 7y ago
I'm always surprised that F# didn't take off. It's a great language and in addition to the strenghts of ML you have the .net ecosystem and Microsoft behind it.
- mruts 7y ago
  There’s some hedge funds using F#. C# has historically been popular in certain parts of finance any many of those shops are now exclusively using F# for new code. Personally, F# is nice and all, but the lack of higher kinded types rubs me the wrong way.
- jetti 7y ago
  It took awhile before it seemed that Microsoft was truly behind it. I tried looking into it when version 2.0 was released and it was a pain in the ass trying to get it to work with Visual Studio 2010 Express. I was not a professional programmer at that time so I didn't have access to Visual Studio Pro. That experience turned me off to the language and I never really went back to look at it.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Microsoft isn't that much behind it. VB.NET, C# and even C++/CLI get all the nice .NET toys, while F# gets to play in some of them. It was even left out of the WinUI 3 roadmap.
- np_tedious 7y ago
  Jet uses F# almost exclusively https://github.com/jet https://github.com/jet https://link.medium.com/spjuV2aAwX https://link.medium.com/spjuV2aAwX
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Jet might not exist for much longer. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-walmart-jet-com/jetcom-falls-by-wayside-as-walmart-focuses-on-its-website-online-grocery-idUSKCN1TD2PS https://www.reuters.com/article/us-walmart-jet-com/jetcom-fa...
- iLemming 7y ago
mruts 7y ago
It is unfortunate. Though, on the other hand, Jane Street is even leveraging OCaml for their FPGA’s. It’s an exclusively OCaml shop. Too bad I’m not smart enough to get hired there. The interviews are impossible.
- generichuman 7y ago
  Honest question, how is it that hard? What do they ask?
  - new4thaccount 7y ago
    IIRC, they go over some of the background of it on their website.
yurish 7y ago
How is Windows support nowadays?
- VoiceOfWisdom 7y ago
  I have not been using OCaml, but I have been using Reason / Bucklescript on Windows extensively. Other than some expectation that GNU tools like cp are available on the path, everything has worked beautifully.
accnumnplus1 7y ago
One little thing which would improve the ecosystem is public ci support... as simply as with other languages. Yes, eg travis or circle can do OCaml but with considerably more effort than other languages where for personal projects I often have a one liner.

neilv 7y ago

Agreed, OCaml has looked good for a long time. And I have a similar feeling of sadness that Racket (or one of the other Scheme variants) isn't used more. I've wondered whether one of the barriers is still that students' only exposure to these is usually using it in school for some contrived homework assignments, and dismissing the tools for "real work" before they've tried applying them. (And at least some schools are emphasizing having students ready for internship/interview with popular languages now, so innovative languages can get even less attention.)

scriptkiddy 7y ago

I really want to use Ocaml for web application back-ends, but last time I checked the ecosystem around that in Ocaml is less than extensive compared to languages like Python, JS, java, etc. It really is a shame. I need to set aside some time to really dive deep into Ocaml and make a simple micro framework or something. From my small amount of exposure, I can say that I love Ocaml's expressiveness and flexibility.

sambal 7y ago
Did you check out F#? I’ve never personally used it, but I know it takes advantage of the .NET ecosystem (and with .NET Core, is no longer tied solely to windows).
anuragsoni 7y ago
There is some good work going on for the lower level pieces: https://github.com/anmonteiro/ocaml-h2 https://github.com/anmonteiro/ocaml-h2 - HTTP2 stack https://github.com/inhabitedtype/httpaf https://github.com/inhabitedtype/httpaf - HTTP stack For micro-frameworks there are a few options available like https://github.com/rgrinberg/opium https://github.com/rgrinberg/opium https://github.com/ostera/httpkit https://github.com/ostera/httpkit There are some scattered pieces in the ecosystem for routing, sessions etc but i agree that compared to Python, JS, etc the ecosystem might not look as cohesive or expansive for web applications. So there should definitely be room to have new solutions in this space

Barrin92 7y ago

I'm always surprised that F# didn't take off. It's a great language and in addition to the strenghts of ML you have the .net ecosystem and Microsoft behind it.

mruts 7y ago
There’s some hedge funds using F#. C# has historically been popular in certain parts of finance any many of those shops are now exclusively using F# for new code. Personally, F# is nice and all, but the lack of higher kinded types rubs me the wrong way.
jetti 7y ago
It took awhile before it seemed that Microsoft was truly behind it. I tried looking into it when version 2.0 was released and it was a pain in the ass trying to get it to work with Visual Studio 2010 Express. I was not a professional programmer at that time so I didn't have access to Visual Studio Pro. That experience turned me off to the language and I never really went back to look at it.
pjmlp 7y ago
Microsoft isn't that much behind it. VB.NET, C# and even C++/CLI get all the nice .NET toys, while F# gets to play in some of them. It was even left out of the WinUI 3 roadmap.
np_tedious 7y ago
Jet uses F# almost exclusively https://github.com/jet https://github.com/jet https://link.medium.com/spjuV2aAwX https://link.medium.com/spjuV2aAwX
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Jet might not exist for much longer. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-walmart-jet-com/jetcom-falls-by-wayside-as-walmart-focuses-on-its-website-online-grocery-idUSKCN1TD2PS https://www.reuters.com/article/us-walmart-jet-com/jetcom-fa...
iLemming 7y ago

mruts 7y ago

It is unfortunate. Though, on the other hand, Jane Street is even leveraging OCaml for their FPGA’s. It’s an exclusively OCaml shop. Too bad I’m not smart enough to get hired there. The interviews are impossible.

generichuman 7y ago
Honest question, how is it that hard? What do they ask?
- new4thaccount 7y ago
  IIRC, they go over some of the background of it on their website.

yurish 7y ago

How is Windows support nowadays?

VoiceOfWisdom 7y ago
I have not been using OCaml, but I have been using Reason / Bucklescript on Windows extensively. Other than some expectation that GNU tools like cp are available on the path, everything has worked beautifully.

accnumnplus1 7y ago

One little thing which would improve the ecosystem is public ci support... as simply as with other languages. Yes, eg travis or circle can do OCaml but with considerably more effort than other languages where for personal projects I often have a one liner.