3 ms·

This smells like a crackpot. The first author’s affiliation is his own “research institute”: https://m.george-eby-research.com/ https://m.george-eby-research.co

This smells like a crackpot. The first author’s affiliation is his own “research institute”: https://m.george-eby-research.com/ https://m.george-eby-research.com/ and they claim a simple, somehow overlooked solution to a difficult problem, citing flimsy and ancient studies.

lettergram 7y ago
I generally agree with you, but lithium is also used to treat bi-polar disorder (among others) and it was discovered by accident. People used to recommend it without any data supporting it. I suspect this is how most treatments start
- tokai 7y ago
  >lithium [...] was discovered by accident. No it was not. Development of treatment with lithium was very much a part of psychiatric normal science.
  - reneberlin 7y ago
    I'm sorry - you are wrong. John Cade found the effects - with animals - by accident. And he was widely ignored because of his lack of fundamental, industry-wide standards for exploration. Neverless: lithium is now the way to go with clinical treatment of a wide range of disorders and reducing self-harm and suicide rates. The problem so far: nobody is sure why it works. The dose is worth mentioning. Clients receive a dose of 200-500mg per day. The lithium you can buy without prescription contains around 1mg. Effects are still there, but the dose on the subjects of matter are quite high and can be toxic if done wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_(medication) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_(medication)
    - tokai 7y ago
      Development of lithium treatment involved a lot more than John Cade's accident. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/bdi.12739 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/bdi.12739
    - phkahler 7y ago
      Wish we knew why it works. But it's also nice that something is accepted based on data alone. Many people in science tend to reject claims based on a lack of explanation alone. But that's the whole point - observe and then try to figure out why or how.
      - gus_massa 7y ago
        > Many people in science tend to reject claims based on a lack of explanation alone. Do you have a good example? Most of the examples I think of are just results got by badly run clinical trials or unreproducible physics experiments.
    - ncmncm 7y ago
      Psychiatrists say the difference between a dose where you start to see some effect, and the toxic dose, is often only 1:2. So experimenting with lithium is hazardous and needs careful, almost, titration.
  - twic 7y ago
    Discovery by accident is normal psychiatric science. Lithium came into use to treat gout, depression being seen a a "brain gout" [1]. The first MAO inhibitor was developed to treat tuberculosis, but doctors noticed that their patients were unusually cheerful [2] - and it was only synthesized in the first place because there was a lot of hydrazine left over from the V2 rocket programme! [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3712976/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3712976/ [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19442174 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19442174
  - ex-aws-now-goog 7y ago
    From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_(medication) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_(medication)): "Cade needed soluble urate for a control. He used lithium urate, already known to be the most soluble urate compound, and observed that it caused the rodents to become tranquil." That looks to me like a surprise discovery.
fxj 7y ago
I recognized the author from another study where he claimed that he found a cure for atrial fibrillation. So I would take it with a grain of salt. Although there is obviously an effect of Magnesium on many important body functions, but the same is true for potassium or other minerals and amino acids. e.g. tryptophan against depression. see: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16797868 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16797868
ysleepy 7y ago
Also the first entry in the reference section is "ABC Homeopathy (2010) Magnesia Muriatica [..]" - without any mention in the text itself that it is used as some quip.

lettergram 7y ago

I generally agree with you, but lithium is also used to treat bi-polar disorder (among others) and it was discovered by accident. People used to recommend it without any data supporting it. I suspect this is how most treatments start

tokai 7y ago
>lithium [...] was discovered by accident. No it was not. Development of treatment with lithium was very much a part of psychiatric normal science.
- reneberlin 7y ago
  I'm sorry - you are wrong. John Cade found the effects - with animals - by accident. And he was widely ignored because of his lack of fundamental, industry-wide standards for exploration. Neverless: lithium is now the way to go with clinical treatment of a wide range of disorders and reducing self-harm and suicide rates. The problem so far: nobody is sure why it works. The dose is worth mentioning. Clients receive a dose of 200-500mg per day. The lithium you can buy without prescription contains around 1mg. Effects are still there, but the dose on the subjects of matter are quite high and can be toxic if done wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_(medication) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_(medication)
  - tokai 7y ago
    Development of lithium treatment involved a lot more than John Cade's accident. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/bdi.12739 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/bdi.12739
  - phkahler 7y ago
    Wish we knew why it works. But it's also nice that something is accepted based on data alone. Many people in science tend to reject claims based on a lack of explanation alone. But that's the whole point - observe and then try to figure out why or how.
    - gus_massa 7y ago
      > Many people in science tend to reject claims based on a lack of explanation alone. Do you have a good example? Most of the examples I think of are just results got by badly run clinical trials or unreproducible physics experiments.
  - ncmncm 7y ago
    Psychiatrists say the difference between a dose where you start to see some effect, and the toxic dose, is often only 1:2. So experimenting with lithium is hazardous and needs careful, almost, titration.
- twic 7y ago
  Discovery by accident is normal psychiatric science. Lithium came into use to treat gout, depression being seen a a "brain gout" [1]. The first MAO inhibitor was developed to treat tuberculosis, but doctors noticed that their patients were unusually cheerful [2] - and it was only synthesized in the first place because there was a lot of hydrazine left over from the V2 rocket programme! [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3712976/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3712976/ [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19442174 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19442174
- ex-aws-now-goog 7y ago
  From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_(medication) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_(medication)): "Cade needed soluble urate for a control. He used lithium urate, already known to be the most soluble urate compound, and observed that it caused the rodents to become tranquil." That looks to me like a surprise discovery.

fxj 7y ago

I recognized the author from another study where he claimed that he found a cure for atrial fibrillation. So I would take it with a grain of salt. Although there is obviously an effect of Magnesium on many important body functions, but the same is true for potassium or other minerals and amino acids. e.g. tryptophan against depression. see: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16797868 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16797868

ysleepy 7y ago

Also the first entry in the reference section is "ABC Homeopathy (2010) Magnesia Muriatica [..]" - without any mention in the text itself that it is used as some quip.