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Italy proposes tax on savings hidden in safety deposit boxes
- x38iq84n 7y ago... ... can you hear it? That is the sound of billions of EUR leaving Italy. When will they learn?
- martin_a 7y agoYes, Italy really has some weird political problems. Alto Adige is extremly wealthy, so is the North of Italy, like north of Milano, I think. Down south it all gets worse, I've heard. I wonder why wealth and industrial power is so concentrated in the North. For Germany this can be explained with bombings during WW2, which flattened parts of Western Germany nearly completely while sparing the South, and with the structural problems after splitting Germany. But I think Italy wasn't bombed that heavily nor was it split at some time like Germany. Why can't they manage to distribute this wealth better and get their problems in control?
- austhrow743 7y agoNorth/South divide predates ww2.
- martin_a 7y agoThank you, I'll read up on this later.
- hylaride 7y agoMind-boggling amounts of corruption (for a western country) as well as various mob related issues that are concentrated in the south. Historically, Italy has had (and arguably still does) poor transport infrastructure, so being in the northern part of the country is closer to the rest of Europe.
- gunzapper 7y agoAs Italian I could try to give you an explanation about the difference between North and South Italy. Basically it derives from the unification process, during the last part of 19th century. Someone thinks the South payed more in this process. Someone else argues that it depends on economic and political differences present before the unification. North was an ensemble of little states, South a large state related to Spanish monarchy.
- x38iq84n 7y agoI have a very simple explanation - geography and climate. The north has cold winters, if one does not work hard they will freeze and starve. Hard work is embedded in the region for generations. In the south you won't freeze in winter, so you don't need to prepare fuel in summer, life has been slower and does not demand as much of hard work to survive. The summer heat in the south also inhibits the activity somewhat, and north may have a tad easier access to trade... I believe these two factors - geography and climate - have a prevalent influence on the development of all societies anywhere in the world.
- Nasrudith 7y agoGiven that it would be literally hidden away in a strongbox before nothing of value would be lost to Italy anyway. It wasn't in their economy anyway and a lack of stashing more away is kind of mission accomplished even without the amnesty tax yields.
- tecleandor 7y agoFrom people who don't pay taxes? Good riddance!
- Proven 7y agoThey could try to fix the banks so that those holdings move to bank accounts and start earning interest. And be taxed. But why take risk to do the right thing, when you can leave the banks messed up and every year steal 2-3% of what's stored in safety deposit boxes.
- sokoloff 7y ago> Those who voluntarily declared their deposit-box holdings would be taxed at a low rate of about 15 percent, he added. In what world is a wealth tax of 15% a "low rate"?!
- kokojie 7y agoSome European country tax 90% of income...
- manderley 7y ago> Some European country tax 90% of income... This is untrue.
- NightlyDev 7y agoIf I make a sale in Norway for 100 NOK: Business VAT: 20 spent (20 %) 80 NOK left. Income tax: 39 spent (max ~49 %) 41 NOK left. VAT on purchase: 8.2 spent (20 %) 32.8 NOK left. 67.2 % taxes. If I spend my money on gas/diesel then I would have ~16 NOK of value left. (84 % taxes) About 18 % of the income tax I'll get back during my pension. So 90 % is probably achievable on some things in some countries.
- plantain 7y agoHuh? Why are you accounting for VAT twice? Either you consider that the business 'pays' the VAT or you 'pay' the VAT, you don't get it both ways.
- NightlyDev 7y agoIt is both ways, for me. My business pays VAT on sales, and I personally pay VAT on purchases, so for me and my business VAT will be paid twice. Both for what I sold and what I(personally) purchased.
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- jermaustin1 7y agoHow will they enforce this? Manually opening ever safety deposit box? I know at my bank (probably all of them?), you need my key and the bank key to open a box. Are they going to request every single person go to their box, open it and show it to the tax man?
- LannisterDebt 7y agoAre they going to give you advanced notice of these bank box inspections? There's no way anyone would remove property to avoid a tax of course.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago>There's no way anyone would remove property to avoid a tax of course. I'm not sure if you're being facetious but people with something to hide will just get a safe deposit box in another country. It's like a one day drive to cover all of Italy and let's be honest here, most of the safe deposit boxes that suddenly need emptying won't be in the south.
- LannisterDebt 7y agoSometimes I forget how small European countries are.
- jcranmer 7y ago> most of the safe deposit boxes that suddenly need emptying won't be in the south. But aren't the powerful illicit crime organizations all in the south? Or are all of the ill-gotten gains laundered elsewhere?
- dingo_bat 7y agoAnother day, another government stealing property.
- dwighttk 7y agoWow... the entire article is 4 sentences (each with their own paragraph). Doesn't have a thing about how they plan on enforcing the tax. 15% > 0%.
- tacone 7y agoPlain false, it's simply a fiscal reconciliation. If you evaded taxes, you may admit it and pay a lower price. It doesn't apply to legitimate savings.
- fsilvestri 7y agoI believe this means that the 49M euros Lega has to re-pay back to Italian Fiscal agency (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/06/italys-league-may-change-name-to-avoid-49m-bill https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/06/italys-league-...) are not stored in a safety deposit box.
- scottmsul 7y agoI thought only income could be taxed? If you have valuables just sitting there, how can they be taxed? Obviously if you sell them there might be capital gains, but not before?
- NTDF9 7y agoWealth tax
- jcranmer 7y agoProperty taxes, stamp taxes, wealth taxes, import/export taxes, sales taxes--these are just some of the common kinds of taxes that are imposed on things that aren't income.
- chrisseaton 7y ago> I thought only income could be taxed? Due to some kind of international law against taxing property? There’s no such thing. Have you never heard of property tax, land value tax, etc? Other things that aren’t income that are taxed that you’ve surely heard of include value added tax, sales tax, window tax, television tax, you could go on forever...
- thesausageking 7y agoThat's how most tax currently work, but some have and do include wealth taxes which which tax a percentage of your total assets. Elizabeth Warren's tax proposal includes adding one which would tax assets above $50m at 2% per year and assets above $1b at 3%.
- tecleandor 7y agoThis is income tax. They are talking about people with hidden/undeclared income in safety boxes instead. It's an opportunity to legalize your money. Quite a steal (ha!) mafia and tax evaders can legalize all their black money paying a measly 15%, when regular workers probably have to pay more.
- tecleandor 7y agoJust to confirm, the first income tax bracket in Italy is 23%. Seems like it really pays to be a tax evasor. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/taxes/income-taxes-abroad/italy/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/taxes/income-taxe...
- b_tterc_p 7y agoAm I correct in saying that another way to view this is a 15% fee to launder all of your dirty money in a risk free, government endorsed way?