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Great points here. We definitely don't have the language to discuss these problems currently. "ambient privacy" is a good start. "I’ve lost something by the fa

Great points here. We definitely don't have the language to discuss these problems currently. "ambient privacy" is a good start. "I’ve lost something by the fact of being monitored." is very true, but deniers will say: "what's the something?" and we just don't have the language to explain it yet.

tobr 7y ago
That’s where the comparison to environmental protection is so powerful. For the longest time, if you would say “We lose something by exploiting natural resources”, people would have just pointed out that there’s a seemingly infinite supply of unexploited nature left. We’ve always been monitored in some situations, but never before around the clock, in the bedroom and the bathroom, at the doctor, etc. There’s no way to know what we lose, when we don’t even know how the information will be used. It is a passive blackmail situation. These companies have compromising information about all of us, and we really don’t have any idea who can or will be able to see it.
- skybrian 7y ago
  Perhaps ironically, environmental protection often requires sophisticated monitoring of nature. If nobody is watching, you don't know what's lost.
- hoseja 7y ago
  Part of it is of course that moral panics and societal attitudes make every human blackmailable. Maybe it would be nice if we could learn to just not care.
deleted 7y ago
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- jakelazaroff 7y ago
  I use the analogy of letting strangers record you using the restroom. Same questions: Do you lose anything? Why not let them do it?
  - vageli 7y ago
    > I use the analogy of letting strangers record you using the restroom. Same questions: Do you lose anything? Why not let them do it? There is a lot of cognitive dissonance in a society that is embarrassed to fart in public but claims they have nothing to hide. Somehow, "hide" became a bad word.

tobr 7y ago

That’s where the comparison to environmental protection is so powerful. For the longest time, if you would say “We lose something by exploiting natural resources”, people would have just pointed out that there’s a seemingly infinite supply of unexploited nature left. We’ve always been monitored in some situations, but never before around the clock, in the bedroom and the bathroom, at the doctor, etc. There’s no way to know what we lose, when we don’t even know how the information will be used. It is a passive blackmail situation. These companies have compromising information about all of us, and we really don’t have any idea who can or will be able to see it.

skybrian 7y ago
Perhaps ironically, environmental protection often requires sophisticated monitoring of nature. If nobody is watching, you don't know what's lost.
hoseja 7y ago
Part of it is of course that moral panics and societal attitudes make every human blackmailable. Maybe it would be nice if we could learn to just not care.

deleted 7y ago

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jakelazaroff 7y ago
I use the analogy of letting strangers record you using the restroom. Same questions: Do you lose anything? Why not let them do it?
- vageli 7y ago
  > I use the analogy of letting strangers record you using the restroom. Same questions: Do you lose anything? Why not let them do it? There is a lot of cognitive dissonance in a society that is embarrassed to fart in public but claims they have nothing to hide. Somehow, "hide" became a bad word.