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I don't really agree with the "Chrome is the new IE" sentiment. They participate in the Web Standards process the same as anyone else. That their voice has diff

I don't really agree with the "Chrome is the new IE" sentiment. They participate in the Web Standards process the same as anyone else. That their voice has different gravity in the process due to the fact that they are often the ones pushing the standards forward isn't something they should be compared to IE for. Devs old enough to recall the halcyon days of IE know it was quite different...

ChrisSD 7y ago
It is different but not necessarily better. Where IE got really bad is when they stopped developing it. Development really slowed after 5.5 and once 6 was the undisputed champion they just left it to rot. Whatever else can be claimed about Chrome, they're not idle. TBH I think if you want a slogan then "Google is the new AOL" is better. When you look at what their doing across technologies it looks more like reinventing AOL's walled browser for the modern age.
- friedegg 7y ago
  Obviously every Google product is different, but how many Google products have reached maturity only for Google to basically stop, and then eventually discontinue it after eliminating the competition in the interim?
  - ChrisSD 7y ago
    Chrome and AMP do seem to be part of Google's long term strategy. I don't see them dropping either anytime soon. Well ok they may drop AMP if they finally get it all integrated into the various web specs. but that's a distinction without a difference.
    - mcguire 7y ago
      Chrome still has some competition. So does AMP, if you count, you know, HTTP.
  - dnautics 7y ago
    search and youtube are the two things I can think of.
SonnyWortzik 7y ago
sure, but Chrome has the power of Google behind it and that makes the browser more attractive because users feel that if the browser comes from the search engine company they already use then it must be compatible with everything they do online. This is a perception which gives Chrome an advantage over other browsers. It's a bit of a monopoly that Google has on the browser market and so now they have leverage over what gets approved and implemented in those browsers. Since most people use Chrome then other browsers are forced to follow suit with compatibility.
bzbarsky 7y ago
IE definitely participated in web standards at the time. Certainly in CSS. They were not as good at bending standards groups to their will as Google has been, for various reasons, which is why standards did not always match their proposed implementations. But trying to paint IE as not engaged in standards is pretty misleading. (Now I don't think they were too engaged in things like XHTML2, but neither was any other browser, because that group was fundamentally not interested in browsers being engaged, as far as I can tell.)
SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
> Devs old enough to recall the halcyon days of IE know it was quite different... I'm old enough. It's not different. Chrome is the new IE.
- reallydude 7y ago
  > Devs old enough to recall the halcyon days of IE know it was quite different... I'm old enough. People sharing your view, are agreeing with a broad assumption that isn't based in reality. Ironically, the Chrome has had to adopt from the other direction (webasm) and hasn't created much whole-cloth that other browsers have had to adopt...and developer's certainly aren't hambstringed by these small additions that make Chrome a delight (for now). From a business perspective, the popularity monopoly is not the same as how IE was made "popular". It's VERY different from the old days in terms of quality and the state of the industry.
  - giancarlostoro 7y ago
    It's not just developers, just like Microsoft made web applications that only worked on IE (think Outlook.com and the introduction of AJAX) we've seen it here on HN all the time, they announce new products that are only known to work on Chrome initially. Some have even changed the user agent and it works on Firefox, so there's some old school Embrace Extend Extinguish nonsense going on from Google's end when they introduce new products.
    - reallydude 7y ago
      > they announce new products that are only known to work on Chrome initially. Can you show any examples of these "features" that are forcing the hand of other browsers? > think Outlook.com and the introduction of AJAX https://www.sitepoint.com/xmlhttprequest-vs-the-fetch-api-whats-best-for-ajax-in-2019/ https://www.sitepoint.com/xmlhttprequest-vs-the-fetch-api-wh... I remember that every browser had an AJAX API, where IE had a specific API that was more straightforward. The AJAX capability was a forgone conclusion rather than a technical leapfrog. You could always had access to an HTML request and timers to code AJAX as a final backup.
module0000 7y ago
With Chrome, you also get Chromium, and the ability to see inside(and contribute!) to development. This did not exist in the IE-dominated era. Link to chromium dev: https://www.chromium.org/getting-involved/dev-channel https://www.chromium.org/getting-involved/dev-channel
- couchand 7y ago
  I'm not going to give any assistance at all to Google, and I'd caution others to think carefully before doing so.
  - module0000 7y ago
    > I'm not going to give any assistance at all to Google Neither am I, but I wanted to point it out anyway. If things like chromium-dev had existed back then, maybe we wouldn't have had the IE fiasco we all remember. Or maybe we would have anyway, who can tell :)
- mcguire 7y ago
  Out of curiosity, how much flows from Chromium to Chrome, compared to vice-versa?
  - comex 7y ago
    Chrome is basically a distribution of Chromium; there are some extra bits added like DRM, but otherwise it's built straight from the Chromium tree. It's not like Android, where there's a private repo that occasionally gets thrown over the wall in the form of AOSP.

ChrisSD 7y ago

It is different but not necessarily better. Where IE got really bad is when they stopped developing it. Development really slowed after 5.5 and once 6 was the undisputed champion they just left it to rot. Whatever else can be claimed about Chrome, they're not idle. TBH I think if you want a slogan then "Google is the new AOL" is better. When you look at what their doing across technologies it looks more like reinventing AOL's walled browser for the modern age.

friedegg 7y ago
Obviously every Google product is different, but how many Google products have reached maturity only for Google to basically stop, and then eventually discontinue it after eliminating the competition in the interim?
- ChrisSD 7y ago
  Chrome and AMP do seem to be part of Google's long term strategy. I don't see them dropping either anytime soon. Well ok they may drop AMP if they finally get it all integrated into the various web specs. but that's a distinction without a difference.
  - mcguire 7y ago
    Chrome still has some competition. So does AMP, if you count, you know, HTTP.
- dnautics 7y ago
  search and youtube are the two things I can think of.

SonnyWortzik 7y ago

sure, but Chrome has the power of Google behind it and that makes the browser more attractive because users feel that if the browser comes from the search engine company they already use then it must be compatible with everything they do online. This is a perception which gives Chrome an advantage over other browsers. It's a bit of a monopoly that Google has on the browser market and so now they have leverage over what gets approved and implemented in those browsers. Since most people use Chrome then other browsers are forced to follow suit with compatibility.

bzbarsky 7y ago

IE definitely participated in web standards at the time. Certainly in CSS. They were not as good at bending standards groups to their will as Google has been, for various reasons, which is why standards did not always match their proposed implementations. But trying to paint IE as not engaged in standards is pretty misleading. (Now I don't think they were too engaged in things like XHTML2, but neither was any other browser, because that group was fundamentally not interested in browsers being engaged, as far as I can tell.)

SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago

> Devs old enough to recall the halcyon days of IE know it was quite different... I'm old enough. It's not different. Chrome is the new IE.

reallydude 7y ago
> Devs old enough to recall the halcyon days of IE know it was quite different... I'm old enough. People sharing your view, are agreeing with a broad assumption that isn't based in reality. Ironically, the Chrome has had to adopt from the other direction (webasm) and hasn't created much whole-cloth that other browsers have had to adopt...and developer's certainly aren't hambstringed by these small additions that make Chrome a delight (for now). From a business perspective, the popularity monopoly is not the same as how IE was made "popular". It's VERY different from the old days in terms of quality and the state of the industry.
- giancarlostoro 7y ago
  It's not just developers, just like Microsoft made web applications that only worked on IE (think Outlook.com and the introduction of AJAX) we've seen it here on HN all the time, they announce new products that are only known to work on Chrome initially. Some have even changed the user agent and it works on Firefox, so there's some old school Embrace Extend Extinguish nonsense going on from Google's end when they introduce new products.
  - reallydude 7y ago
    > they announce new products that are only known to work on Chrome initially. Can you show any examples of these "features" that are forcing the hand of other browsers? > think Outlook.com and the introduction of AJAX https://www.sitepoint.com/xmlhttprequest-vs-the-fetch-api-whats-best-for-ajax-in-2019/ https://www.sitepoint.com/xmlhttprequest-vs-the-fetch-api-wh... I remember that every browser had an AJAX API, where IE had a specific API that was more straightforward. The AJAX capability was a forgone conclusion rather than a technical leapfrog. You could always had access to an HTML request and timers to code AJAX as a final backup.

module0000 7y ago

With Chrome, you also get Chromium, and the ability to see inside(and contribute!) to development. This did not exist in the IE-dominated era. Link to chromium dev: https://www.chromium.org/getting-involved/dev-channel https://www.chromium.org/getting-involved/dev-channel

couchand 7y ago
I'm not going to give any assistance at all to Google, and I'd caution others to think carefully before doing so.
- module0000 7y ago
  > I'm not going to give any assistance at all to Google Neither am I, but I wanted to point it out anyway. If things like chromium-dev had existed back then, maybe we wouldn't have had the IE fiasco we all remember. Or maybe we would have anyway, who can tell :)
mcguire 7y ago
Out of curiosity, how much flows from Chromium to Chrome, compared to vice-versa?
- comex 7y ago
  Chrome is basically a distribution of Chromium; there are some extra bits added like DRM, but otherwise it's built straight from the Chromium tree. It's not like Android, where there's a private repo that occasionally gets thrown over the wall in the form of AOSP.