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The implications are grim. Governments worldwide are tightening the screws, becoming more secretive and spying extensively on their citizens. Voting doesn't wo

by blub 7y ago

The implications are grim. Governments worldwide are tightening the screws, becoming more secretive and spying extensively on their citizens. Voting doesn't work, as most parties support this encroachment on civil liberties in the name of fighting various evils. I don't have any solutions and little hope. In the past it used to be that totalitarian governments fell because the population was poor and deeply unhappy. What happens when the government has access to almost perfect information about its citizens, insights that even they might not have? And if they are able to offer decent living standards in exchange for fewer freedoms, they would have an iron grip on power.

jstewartmobile 7y ago
It's been "Brave New World" for a while now. "The philosophy of the ruling minority in Nineteen Eighty-Four is a sadism which has been carried to its logical conclusion by going beyond sex and denying it. Whether in actual fact the policy of the boot-on-the-face can go on indefinitely seems doubtful. My own belief is that the ruling oligarchy will find less arduous and wasteful ways of governing and of satisfying its lust for power, and these ways will resemble those which I described in Brave New World." http://www.openculture.com/2018/08/aldous-huxley-george-orwell-hellish-vision-future-better-1949.html http://www.openculture.com/2018/08/aldous-huxley-george-orwe...
throwaway8879 7y ago
It also seems to me that the possibility of a revolution, in any sense of the word, is getting more and more miniscule, no matter which angle you look at it, whether it's because many people simply don't care or are happy to voluntarily give up private information for diminishing doses of dopamine hits. The thing about any major revolutionary change is that the initial seed is planted through breaking some kind of law. And if we get to the point where breaking simple laws is impossible because of the near-complete information the state actor has on it's people, things are likely to get worse. I do see a bleak future ahead. And grim.
- sprafa 7y ago
  According to research I’ve read revolutions grow more likely only when food prices exceed the average income of the population. That is - populations only revolt when starving. That would explain why we see so little of them - starvation level poverty is perhaps becoming less common? This would be a good thing.
- mc32 7y ago
  I’m not sure about this take. One revolutions are overwhelmingly bloody and sow seeds of distrust and division among groups. Two, most aren’t grass-roots but usually orchestrated by larger interests who then coöpt a desperate and vulnerable public. [added] The effects of revolutions can have deleterious repercussions for several generations down the line.
  - maze-le 7y ago
    Three, revolutions have always led to counter-revolutionary movements, that almost always attain some degree of power in the new system too. Bloody vicious cycles of purges and counter-purges follow. With a new system and the very same megalomaniac people in power, not much changes -- except for one or two key-issues the revolution wanted to tackle initially.
- Shivetya 7y ago
  The revolution needed is for people to quit letting the politicians and press to set their world view. One must remember that political parties extensively use market research to craft their message and through sycophants in the press will float trial balloons of upcoming campaign statements to see what will work. Using fear, uncertainty, doubt, and jealously, the convince you to not only put them in office but to stand up for you by "taking care" of those they have taught you to dislike to the point you are now voting people in to punish others. How we fix that I don't know. However remember one thing. A religious leader demanding action on a moral backing is many many times less dangerous than a politician using a moral stance because theirs changes on a whim
  - lagg 7y ago

by blub 7y ago

jstewartmobile 7y ago

It's been "Brave New World" for a while now. "The philosophy of the ruling minority in Nineteen Eighty-Four is a sadism which has been carried to its logical conclusion by going beyond sex and denying it. Whether in actual fact the policy of the boot-on-the-face can go on indefinitely seems doubtful. My own belief is that the ruling oligarchy will find less arduous and wasteful ways of governing and of satisfying its lust for power, and these ways will resemble those which I described in Brave New World." http://www.openculture.com/2018/08/aldous-huxley-george-orwell-hellish-vision-future-better-1949.html http://www.openculture.com/2018/08/aldous-huxley-george-orwe...

throwaway8879 7y ago

It also seems to me that the possibility of a revolution, in any sense of the word, is getting more and more miniscule, no matter which angle you look at it, whether it's because many people simply don't care or are happy to voluntarily give up private information for diminishing doses of dopamine hits. The thing about any major revolutionary change is that the initial seed is planted through breaking some kind of law. And if we get to the point where breaking simple laws is impossible because of the near-complete information the state actor has on it's people, things are likely to get worse. I do see a bleak future ahead. And grim.

sprafa 7y ago
According to research I’ve read revolutions grow more likely only when food prices exceed the average income of the population. That is - populations only revolt when starving. That would explain why we see so little of them - starvation level poverty is perhaps becoming less common? This would be a good thing.
mc32 7y ago
I’m not sure about this take. One revolutions are overwhelmingly bloody and sow seeds of distrust and division among groups. Two, most aren’t grass-roots but usually orchestrated by larger interests who then coöpt a desperate and vulnerable public. [added] The effects of revolutions can have deleterious repercussions for several generations down the line.
- maze-le 7y ago
  Three, revolutions have always led to counter-revolutionary movements, that almost always attain some degree of power in the new system too. Bloody vicious cycles of purges and counter-purges follow. With a new system and the very same megalomaniac people in power, not much changes -- except for one or two key-issues the revolution wanted to tackle initially.
Shivetya 7y ago
The revolution needed is for people to quit letting the politicians and press to set their world view. One must remember that political parties extensively use market research to craft their message and through sycophants in the press will float trial balloons of upcoming campaign statements to see what will work. Using fear, uncertainty, doubt, and jealously, the convince you to not only put them in office but to stand up for you by "taking care" of those they have taught you to dislike to the point you are now voting people in to punish others. How we fix that I don't know. However remember one thing. A religious leader demanding action on a moral backing is many many times less dangerous than a politician using a moral stance because theirs changes on a whim
- lagg 7y ago