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WeChat is a private company owned by Tencent.

rtpg 7y ago
I mean.... the govt can check whatever they want on the WeChat logs. And the populace is pretty accepting of this for security reasons (if you aren’t going off the “government can be corrupt and abuse it’s powers” principle its actually kinda hard to make the privacy argument!)
- hutzlibu 7y ago
  "government can be corrupt and abuse it’s powers” The thing is, this is not some hypothetically argument, but governments ARE corrupt and abuse their powers. Even in our awesome democratic western systems. In china much more. And that the general chinese population is used to it and therefore does not mind so much, is just that they are used to it.
- adinobro 7y ago
  I didn't say anything about privacy just that it is a private company. It doesn't seem that different to the US government with AT&T. https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130901/23253224379/att-has-employees-embedded-govt-providing-near-realtime-searches-nearly-every-phone-call.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130901/23253224379/att-h...
  - adamsea 7y ago
    It is different because in China I doubt there would have been any investigative reporting about the government and AT&T. And while AT&T doesn’t seem to have done this, other companies such as Apple have enacted privacy measures which directly contravene the stated wishes of the government - but which are legal. In China, I believe the way it works is, whatever the government wants becomes legal. The US is far from perfect but the rule of law exists here to some degree.
    - adinobro 7y ago
      One of the biggest and more interesting difference is that the US government wants to keep these things secret and investigative reporting finds them. In China, they want this information public because they want people to know that they know and self regulate - Panopticon. The cynic in me looks at the US as a country controlled by companies while China is a country that controls companies. I don't know if it makes that much of a difference any more now that companies are almost the same size as countries.
      - nullwasamistake 7y ago
        Yeah right, in China if you make the wrong thing public you disappear.
      - lotsofpulp 7y ago
        The only optimal solution for the little guy is complete privacy, or complete transparency, where everyone has equal access to all information. Complete privacy is evidently not achievable, therefore the only option left is complete transparency. Either way, the current reality of some lucky individuals having all the access to everyone’s information, whether it’s Chinese government or companies or US government or companies is the worst situation to be in if you have little power, i.e. 99.9999999% of people who aren’t billionaires/nation state level diplomats.
- taneq 7y ago
  > if you aren’t going off the “government can be corrupt and abuse it’s powers” principle its actually kinda hard to make the privacy argument! It's not just "government can be corrupt and abuse its powers", it's also "government will be inept and leak your data". And since you can't unreveal data, "government" doesn't just mean "current government", it means "current and any possible future government".
wener 7y ago
Tencent is gov friendly company. Basically, data owned by gov.
- varjag 7y ago
  Government unfriendly is simply not an option in China. It's endearing how "but the USA" crowd is out of touch with reality.
  - low_poly_shiba 7y ago
    what are your sources of info, so that the "but the USA" crowd can learn about your reality?
    - varjag 7y ago
      First hand living experience in a communist, and then authoritarian post-communist, country. And before you say not all communist are alike and you can't generalize… yeah no, they are quite alike and you can generalize. Anyone who lived in any of them knows exactly what guanxi and other social concepts mean, the cultures are remarkably cookie-cutter.
      - low_poly_shiba 7y ago
        Americans, and people living in American colonies, also have first-hand experience with American imperialism. I'm not sure why you think your experience trounces theirs?
        varjag 7y ago
        You sort of prove my point. And don't generalize people suffering from bouts of anti-Americanism to all Americans or all the West.
        low_poly_shiba 7y ago
pwinnski 7y ago
This is a distinction without a difference in China.
- ssnistfajen 7y ago
  Except there is very much a difference. Being vulnerable to government pressure and being outright owned by a government are completely different things. Conflating these two is disingenuous and ignoring reality.

rtpg 7y ago

I mean.... the govt can check whatever they want on the WeChat logs. And the populace is pretty accepting of this for security reasons (if you aren’t going off the “government can be corrupt and abuse it’s powers” principle its actually kinda hard to make the privacy argument!)

hutzlibu 7y ago
"government can be corrupt and abuse it’s powers” The thing is, this is not some hypothetically argument, but governments ARE corrupt and abuse their powers. Even in our awesome democratic western systems. In china much more. And that the general chinese population is used to it and therefore does not mind so much, is just that they are used to it.
adinobro 7y ago
I didn't say anything about privacy just that it is a private company. It doesn't seem that different to the US government with AT&T. https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130901/23253224379/att-has-employees-embedded-govt-providing-near-realtime-searches-nearly-every-phone-call.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130901/23253224379/att-h...
- adamsea 7y ago
  It is different because in China I doubt there would have been any investigative reporting about the government and AT&T. And while AT&T doesn’t seem to have done this, other companies such as Apple have enacted privacy measures which directly contravene the stated wishes of the government - but which are legal. In China, I believe the way it works is, whatever the government wants becomes legal. The US is far from perfect but the rule of law exists here to some degree.
  - adinobro 7y ago
    One of the biggest and more interesting difference is that the US government wants to keep these things secret and investigative reporting finds them. In China, they want this information public because they want people to know that they know and self regulate - Panopticon. The cynic in me looks at the US as a country controlled by companies while China is a country that controls companies. I don't know if it makes that much of a difference any more now that companies are almost the same size as countries.
    - nullwasamistake 7y ago
      Yeah right, in China if you make the wrong thing public you disappear.
    - lotsofpulp 7y ago
      The only optimal solution for the little guy is complete privacy, or complete transparency, where everyone has equal access to all information. Complete privacy is evidently not achievable, therefore the only option left is complete transparency. Either way, the current reality of some lucky individuals having all the access to everyone’s information, whether it’s Chinese government or companies or US government or companies is the worst situation to be in if you have little power, i.e. 99.9999999% of people who aren’t billionaires/nation state level diplomats.
taneq 7y ago
> if you aren’t going off the “government can be corrupt and abuse it’s powers” principle its actually kinda hard to make the privacy argument! It's not just "government can be corrupt and abuse its powers", it's also "government will be inept and leak your data". And since you can't unreveal data, "government" doesn't just mean "current government", it means "current and any possible future government".

wener 7y ago

Tencent is gov friendly company. Basically, data owned by gov.

varjag 7y ago
Government unfriendly is simply not an option in China. It's endearing how "but the USA" crowd is out of touch with reality.
- low_poly_shiba 7y ago
  what are your sources of info, so that the "but the USA" crowd can learn about your reality?
  - varjag 7y ago
    First hand living experience in a communist, and then authoritarian post-communist, country. And before you say not all communist are alike and you can't generalize… yeah no, they are quite alike and you can generalize. Anyone who lived in any of them knows exactly what guanxi and other social concepts mean, the cultures are remarkably cookie-cutter.
    - low_poly_shiba 7y ago
      Americans, and people living in American colonies, also have first-hand experience with American imperialism. I'm not sure why you think your experience trounces theirs?
      - varjag 7y ago
        You sort of prove my point. And don't generalize people suffering from bouts of anti-Americanism to all Americans or all the West.
        low_poly_shiba 7y ago

pwinnski 7y ago

This is a distinction without a difference in China.

ssnistfajen 7y ago
Except there is very much a difference. Being vulnerable to government pressure and being outright owned by a government are completely different things. Conflating these two is disingenuous and ignoring reality.