6 ms·

Whenever some piece of free software is discussed, there has to be someone that demands former features to come back or new ones to be added. Nothing wrong with

by Funes- 7y ago

Whenever some piece of free software is discussed, there has to be someone that demands former features to come back or new ones to be added. Nothing wrong with suggesting changes to the software, but demanding them? Go fork it if you want it so bad instead of complaining to people who most probably aren't even being paid.

Crinus 7y ago
How do you differentiate between suggesting and demanding?
- jkoudys 7y ago
  Sentiment analysis.
  - Crinus 7y ago
    No sure what you mean? What sentiment and how would you analyze it?
- Funes- 7y ago
  Besides the actual words from which you can--most of the time--immediately see or at least infer where the comment falls into: politeness and tone. I don't think it's usually hard to know if someone is being aggressive and demanding about it, as far as I can say.
  - Crinus 7y ago
    So the difference is really how you perceive what someone is writing? What if your perception is wrong?
    - Funes- 7y ago
      Isn't that how all communication works? Aren't you relying on your perception and cognitive abilities to interpret my comments to reply to them accordingly? What exactly are we discussing here? Of course my personal interpretations could be wrong; nonetheless, clear-cut cases of users complaining and demonstrating entitlement towards free software developers is something I cannot possibly endorse.
- cwilby 7y ago
  To me demand is a precursor for suggestion, or at least underlines it. Neither are really bad, at least there's communication. That being said, there's a difference between "There seems to be a lot of demand to bring back feature x, how much work would be involved in including it in the next release?" vs some variant of "It sucks you got rid of feature x, bring it back!"
  - Crinus 7y ago
    Personally i'd see the first one as suggestion, but the second one is more complex. If it was just "It sucks you got rid of feature x" i wouldn't see it as neither suggestion nor demand (personally i dislike some changes in GIMP, see my other comments in this thread, and do comment on them if they are brought up, but these are just comments about how i see these changes, not suggestions and especially not demands). The "bring it back" makes all the difference though and yeah, to me that makes a demand.
inferiorhuman 7y ago
Go fork it if you want it so bad instead of complaining to people who most probably aren't even being paid. Ask the KDE guys how that works. Hint: despite the license the GIMP crew will happily throw a hissy fit at any fork of GIMP.
- jhasse 7y ago
  Care to elaborate?
  - defective 7y ago
    Over 20 years ago, Matthias Ettrich made a Qt GUI for GIMP. GIMP community apparently didn't like him doing that, don't know why. It may have had something to do with licensing -- at the time the Qt license meant it wasn't free software and there was some drama about KDE becoming popular when it was using Qt and thus a large component was nonfree. I know these facts separately and do not know if they are related, but it seems like all that stuff was happening in a few-months span in 1998. Someone else would have to elaborate more if they remember anything. https://krita.org/en/about/history/ https://krita.org/en/about/history/
    - jhasse 7y ago
      > It may have had something to do with licensing -- at the time the Qt license meant it wasn't free software [...] So the fork basically violated GIMP's license, right? I think it's very far fetched to conclude "GIMP crew will happily throw a hissy fit at any fork" from that!
      - prokoudine 7y ago
        Unsure if inferiorhuman and defective are the same person, but this is so much fun. 1. Pick a story from 20+ years ago. 2. Pretend you are talking about the same people (they aren't). 3. Pretend they never changed their opinion about anything (they did). 4. Post a comment that suggests nothing changed since 1998 (it has). My goodness, some people on the interwebz...

by Funes- 7y ago

Crinus 7y ago

How do you differentiate between suggesting and demanding?

jkoudys 7y ago
Sentiment analysis.
- Crinus 7y ago
  No sure what you mean? What sentiment and how would you analyze it?
Funes- 7y ago
Besides the actual words from which you can--most of the time--immediately see or at least infer where the comment falls into: politeness and tone. I don't think it's usually hard to know if someone is being aggressive and demanding about it, as far as I can say.
- Crinus 7y ago
  So the difference is really how you perceive what someone is writing? What if your perception is wrong?
  - Funes- 7y ago
    Isn't that how all communication works? Aren't you relying on your perception and cognitive abilities to interpret my comments to reply to them accordingly? What exactly are we discussing here? Of course my personal interpretations could be wrong; nonetheless, clear-cut cases of users complaining and demonstrating entitlement towards free software developers is something I cannot possibly endorse.
cwilby 7y ago
To me demand is a precursor for suggestion, or at least underlines it. Neither are really bad, at least there's communication. That being said, there's a difference between "There seems to be a lot of demand to bring back feature x, how much work would be involved in including it in the next release?" vs some variant of "It sucks you got rid of feature x, bring it back!"
- Crinus 7y ago
  Personally i'd see the first one as suggestion, but the second one is more complex. If it was just "It sucks you got rid of feature x" i wouldn't see it as neither suggestion nor demand (personally i dislike some changes in GIMP, see my other comments in this thread, and do comment on them if they are brought up, but these are just comments about how i see these changes, not suggestions and especially not demands). The "bring it back" makes all the difference though and yeah, to me that makes a demand.

inferiorhuman 7y ago

Go fork it if you want it so bad instead of complaining to people who most probably aren't even being paid. Ask the KDE guys how that works. Hint: despite the license the GIMP crew will happily throw a hissy fit at any fork of GIMP.

jhasse 7y ago
Care to elaborate?
- defective 7y ago
  Over 20 years ago, Matthias Ettrich made a Qt GUI for GIMP. GIMP community apparently didn't like him doing that, don't know why. It may have had something to do with licensing -- at the time the Qt license meant it wasn't free software and there was some drama about KDE becoming popular when it was using Qt and thus a large component was nonfree. I know these facts separately and do not know if they are related, but it seems like all that stuff was happening in a few-months span in 1998. Someone else would have to elaborate more if they remember anything. https://krita.org/en/about/history/ https://krita.org/en/about/history/
  - jhasse 7y ago
    > It may have had something to do with licensing -- at the time the Qt license meant it wasn't free software [...] So the fork basically violated GIMP's license, right? I think it's very far fetched to conclude "GIMP crew will happily throw a hissy fit at any fork" from that!
    - prokoudine 7y ago
      Unsure if inferiorhuman and defective are the same person, but this is so much fun. 1. Pick a story from 20+ years ago. 2. Pretend you are talking about the same people (they aren't). 3. Pretend they never changed their opinion about anything (they did). 4. Post a comment that suggests nothing changed since 1998 (it has). My goodness, some people on the interwebz...