6 ms·

What do you consider hostile in those changes? I'm only a light user, and didn't feel any hostility...

by harel 7y ago

alpaca128 7y ago
It's not hostile but it feels completely unnecessary. I don't see any UX improvement by splitting up multiple options of a single feature into two separate menus.
- NikkiA 7y ago
  It stops people saving a master copy as .xcf, then saving as png to export, then hitting Ctrl-S and thinking they've saved their master copy when they haven't. As such it is most definitely a positive change, even if it does go against my 'muscle' memory of how I used to work it, and cause me to 'doh' more often than I should.
  - cygx 7y ago
    On the flip side, it complicates workflows with non-xcf master copies.
  - Kaiyou 7y ago
    I've been using gimp since at least 2003 and never used .xcf files. Sometimes I accidentally saved as .xcf which was a huge bother, since that file format is useless outside of gimp.
- uryga 7y ago
  i think of exporting like compiling. the .xcf is the "source" (layers, non-destructive effects, vector paths, etc), and i only want to save when i'm working on that. when i want to "build" it into a flat .png that people can actually use, i export it.
  - Kaiyou 7y ago
    If possible, I'd like to completely get rid of everything xcf inside gimp. It's useless overhead to me.
torstenvl 7y ago
An extremely common workflow is: open an image in your image editor, make an edit, save it. That workflow results in a Save As dialog as of 2.8, pre-filled with .xcf, and no way to save the opened file. In nearly every program in common use, the open → edit → save workflow Just Works. In some programs (e.g., Word) you might get a dialog extolling the features of the newest proprietary format, but it won't prohibit you from saving as the original format (.doc, .rtf, whatever). GIMP does. The functionality is completely removed from the Save dialog. You have to somehow know to cancel your save (talk about unintuitive) and go use the Export dialog. IMO, this was an unforced error. GIMP copied the Photoshop Save workflow mistake, despite it being the minority position, despite GIMP's own history of the UI for that feature, and despite not having any (published) A-B studies.
- soulofmischief 7y ago
  > In nearly every program in common use, the open → edit → save workflow Just Works. Most programs aren't image editors which can export in a variety of formats as well as save in a native, preserving format. How Microsoft Word works has literally nothing to do with how GIMP works. > GIMP copied the Photoshop Save workflow mistake Tens of hours of work done on accident? > despite it being the minority position Photoshop a minority?? > despite GIMP's own history of the UI for that feature A previous major version's UI has relevance to a future major version's UI??? > despite it being the minority position Who is paying for these studies????
  - jhasse 7y ago
    > A previous major version's UI has relevance to a future major version's UI??? Yes, of course.
    - soulofmischief 7y ago
      It's understandable that you should generally keep the UI the same between releases, it shouldn't be changing every release. But at some point in a 20-year development cycle you might want to switch things up, and a major release is the time to do it. I don't think anyone had a legitimate complaint when Blender completely revamped their UI a few years ago. It was objectively better, and "it's different than what I'm used to" was not a valid complaint.

What do you consider hostile in those changes? I'm only a light user, and didn't feel any hostility...

by harel 7y ago

What do you consider hostile in those changes? I'm only a light user, and didn't feel any hostility...

It's not hostile but it feels completely unnecessary. I don't see any UX improvement by splitting up multiple options of a single feature into two separate menus.

NikkiA 7y ago
It stops people saving a master copy as .xcf, then saving as png to export, then hitting Ctrl-S and thinking they've saved their master copy when they haven't. As such it is most definitely a positive change, even if it does go against my 'muscle' memory of how I used to work it, and cause me to 'doh' more often than I should.
- cygx 7y ago
  On the flip side, it complicates workflows with non-xcf master copies.
- Kaiyou 7y ago
  I've been using gimp since at least 2003 and never used .xcf files. Sometimes I accidentally saved as .xcf which was a huge bother, since that file format is useless outside of gimp.
uryga 7y ago
i think of exporting like compiling. the .xcf is the "source" (layers, non-destructive effects, vector paths, etc), and i only want to save when i'm working on that. when i want to "build" it into a flat .png that people can actually use, i export it.
- Kaiyou 7y ago
  If possible, I'd like to completely get rid of everything xcf inside gimp. It's useless overhead to me.

torstenvl 7y ago

An extremely common workflow is: open an image in your image editor, make an edit, save it. That workflow results in a Save As dialog as of 2.8, pre-filled with .xcf, and no way to save the opened file. In nearly every program in common use, the open → edit → save workflow Just Works. In some programs (e.g., Word) you might get a dialog extolling the features of the newest proprietary format, but it won't prohibit you from saving as the original format (.doc, .rtf, whatever). GIMP does. The functionality is completely removed from the Save dialog. You have to somehow know to cancel your save (talk about unintuitive) and go use the Export dialog. IMO, this was an unforced error. GIMP copied the Photoshop Save workflow mistake, despite it being the minority position, despite GIMP's own history of the UI for that feature, and despite not having any (published) A-B studies.

soulofmischief 7y ago
> In nearly every program in common use, the open → edit → save workflow Just Works. Most programs aren't image editors which can export in a variety of formats as well as save in a native, preserving format. How Microsoft Word works has literally nothing to do with how GIMP works. > GIMP copied the Photoshop Save workflow mistake Tens of hours of work done on accident? > despite it being the minority position Photoshop a minority?? > despite GIMP's own history of the UI for that feature A previous major version's UI has relevance to a future major version's UI??? > despite it being the minority position Who is paying for these studies????
- jhasse 7y ago
  > A previous major version's UI has relevance to a future major version's UI??? Yes, of course.
  - soulofmischief 7y ago
    It's understandable that you should generally keep the UI the same between releases, it shouldn't be changing every release. But at some point in a 20-year development cycle you might want to switch things up, and a major release is the time to do it. I don't think anyone had a legitimate complaint when Blender completely revamped their UI a few years ago. It was objectively better, and "it's different than what I'm used to" was not a valid complaint.