4 ms·

Your point is well taken but I'd offer one caveat which is the people in Reminder #1 are a big part of the problem that creates Reminder #2. I recently attende

Your point is well taken but I'd offer one caveat which is the people in Reminder #1 are a big part of the problem that creates Reminder #2. I recently attended a meeting between educators and future California Governor Jerry Brown. At that meeting I watched a woman with a doctorate in English scream at the future (and former) Mayor of California because he was telling her they'd have to cut her six figure salary. Even though she admitted her students test scores were abysmal and everyone in the room knows she couldn't go anywhere else and get paid the same rate she still felt she was entitled to the money on her degree alone. Bottom line (IMHO): If society is to move forward people who deify the degree need to be relieved of that delusion even if it's painful to them.

enjo 16y ago
My bet is that her expertise in English <whatever> is vast and noteworthy. I don't deify the degree, but I certainly deify the accomplishment of earning a PhD. The fact that as an English PhD she was able to even get a job, much less a high paying one certainly implies that she's an expert in her field. I'm not arguing about her pay, that's up to the market. However, the condescending tone of your post shows that you have zero inkling of what's involved in the PhD process (no worries, most people don't even when they think they do). I've lived through my wifes years in PhD school (accounting). It was as intense a 5 years as I could imagine anyone enduring.
- nkassis 16y ago
  "PhD school (accounting)" that's an interesting choice. What kind of research or work does she do?
  - enjo 16y ago
    She studies behavioral accounting issues. Her dissertation was on the effect of internet stock message boards and their influence on investor decision making. In her case she overlaps very heavily with behavioral economics (think freakonomics, predictably irrational, etc...). It can be pretty amusing watching these academics fight over what is in the realm of behavioral accounting and what is within economics. No one really knows;) There is a capital markets side of accounting research which is much more focused on the analysis of accounting in the wild. It is hard to sort of put your finger on what accounting research is. It does exist tho:)
    - pjscott 16y ago
      > It can be pretty amusing watching these academics fight over what is in the realm of behavioral accounting and what is within economics. No one really knows;) If they have to argue about this, then they've probably drawn the dividing lines between their categories wrong, and they're trying to shoehorn new ideas into an ill-fitting taxonomy rather than making the taxonomy accurate. (Related: where the hell does computer science fit? Is it a science, or a branch of applied math, or a craft, or an engineering discipline? Or perhaps an exotic species of potato? Sometimes I think we need the ghost of Alfred Korzybski to rise from the grave and harangue people.)
- TomOfTTB 16y ago
  It doesn't matter what goes into a PHD process. In the real world you get respect for what you can do not the process by which you obtained skills. As I said the woman I was referring to admitted her students test scores were poor (though she blamed it on external factors) So I'm absolutely condescending of people who think because they went through a process of any kind they are automatically entitled to respect and high pay. I respect people who prove their worth to society.
- nostrademons 16y ago
  Should all difficult accomplishments be rewarded? Or should only useful accomplishments be rewarded?
  - apsurd 16y ago
    A very good question! My answer: A difficult accomplishment should be its own reward irrespective of the outside world. A useful difficult accomplishment will be rewarded by the outside world.

enjo 16y ago

My bet is that her expertise in English <whatever> is vast and noteworthy. I don't deify the degree, but I certainly deify the accomplishment of earning a PhD. The fact that as an English PhD she was able to even get a job, much less a high paying one certainly implies that she's an expert in her field. I'm not arguing about her pay, that's up to the market. However, the condescending tone of your post shows that you have zero inkling of what's involved in the PhD process (no worries, most people don't even when they think they do). I've lived through my wifes years in PhD school (accounting). It was as intense a 5 years as I could imagine anyone enduring.

nkassis 16y ago
"PhD school (accounting)" that's an interesting choice. What kind of research or work does she do?
- enjo 16y ago
  She studies behavioral accounting issues. Her dissertation was on the effect of internet stock message boards and their influence on investor decision making. In her case she overlaps very heavily with behavioral economics (think freakonomics, predictably irrational, etc...). It can be pretty amusing watching these academics fight over what is in the realm of behavioral accounting and what is within economics. No one really knows;) There is a capital markets side of accounting research which is much more focused on the analysis of accounting in the wild. It is hard to sort of put your finger on what accounting research is. It does exist tho:)
  - pjscott 16y ago
    > It can be pretty amusing watching these academics fight over what is in the realm of behavioral accounting and what is within economics. No one really knows;) If they have to argue about this, then they've probably drawn the dividing lines between their categories wrong, and they're trying to shoehorn new ideas into an ill-fitting taxonomy rather than making the taxonomy accurate. (Related: where the hell does computer science fit? Is it a science, or a branch of applied math, or a craft, or an engineering discipline? Or perhaps an exotic species of potato? Sometimes I think we need the ghost of Alfred Korzybski to rise from the grave and harangue people.)
TomOfTTB 16y ago
It doesn't matter what goes into a PHD process. In the real world you get respect for what you can do not the process by which you obtained skills. As I said the woman I was referring to admitted her students test scores were poor (though she blamed it on external factors) So I'm absolutely condescending of people who think because they went through a process of any kind they are automatically entitled to respect and high pay. I respect people who prove their worth to society.
nostrademons 16y ago
Should all difficult accomplishments be rewarded? Or should only useful accomplishments be rewarded?
- apsurd 16y ago
  A very good question! My answer: A difficult accomplishment should be its own reward irrespective of the outside world. A useful difficult accomplishment will be rewarded by the outside world.