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Did much of Lisa even survive to become the Mac, or was it just in spirit? Considering you needed a Lisa to develop for the Mac for the first few years, it’s g

Did much of Lisa even survive to become the Mac, or was it just in spirit? Considering you needed a Lisa to develop for the Mac for the first few years, it’s good that they made it.

outworlder 7y ago
Spirit. The Lisa was a MUCH more powerful computer than the first Mac - which is why you needed a Lisa in the first place. The Mac wasn't able to run much of anything developed for the Lisa. Mac software was written in machine language, as I recall the Lisa made more use of higher level languages, so even the tool chain would be problematic. Check folklore.org for more stories of that time.
- Crinus 7y ago
  Specifically, Apple Pascal: http://pascal-central.com/images/pascalposter.jpg http://pascal-central.com/images/pascalposter.jpg (i want to recreate this in SVG and print a real poster out of it at some point). Although AFAIK the original Mac was also programmable with Pascal (in folklore it mentions that the calculator, etc were initially written in Pascal as examples for the API).
  - Shivetya 7y ago
    the reason I went into Pascal was when I was younger I found out my favorite Apple II game; Wizardry; had been written in it. I think they used USCD Pascal. awhile back I was able to find recreated source of the game [1] ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/images/games/rpg/wizardry/wizardry_I/ Spreadsheet of game maps, etc. [2] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Mo1EoWXSnR5gNn5kAt9ftGV4DlVpK8gr_QOx0kKzeV4/edit#gid=0 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Mo1EoWXSnR5gNn5kAt9f... Wizardry III re engineered [3] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/comp.sys.apple2/wizardry/comp.sys.apple2/2oDJTbQaJWU/Vge7HkIcYYwJ https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/comp.sys.apple2/w...
mepian 7y ago
QuickDraw, the 2D graphics library, is probably the biggest part of the Lisa that lived on in the Mac.
- valleyer 7y ago
  Additionally, the Lisa Desktop Library contains many similarly named routines to the Mac Toolbox. The Lisa Desktop Library was never directly exposed to third-party applications though. (The Lisa Toolkit exposed it indirectly.) Lisa Desktop Library: https://www.apple.asimov.net/documentation/applelisa/AppleLisa%20-%20Desktop%20Library%20v3%20Interface.pdf https://www.apple.asimov.net/documentation/applelisa/AppleLi... As an example, the Lisa Desktop Library has PROCEDURE HiLiteMenu(menuId: INTEGER); The Xcode 11 beta that just came out this year still has <Menus.h> which includes... extern void HiliteMenu(MenuID menuID) AVAILABLE_MAC_OS_X_VERSION_10_0_AND_LATER;
  - astrange 7y ago
    That function is inside an #if 32-bit, which means it no longer actually exists in 64-bit only macOS. I think AppleScript/Apple Events is the oldest technology still standing, but maybe printing and scanning is older.
    - valleyer 7y ago
      Good point! it is only usable from 32-bit apps, which don't run anymore. But -- if we want to be technical, the function still actually exists, since macOS menus are still driven by Carbon code. $ nm /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/HIToolbox | grep HiliteMenu 0000000000077d86 T _HiliteMenu That's kind of amazing to me!
masswerk 7y ago
Additionally to the other features mentioned, originally the file system, but without using any of the auto-repair abilities, the Lisa had. (This was soon to replaced by HFS+.)

Did much of Lisa even survive to become the Mac, or was it just in spirit? Considering you needed a Lisa to develop for the Mac for the first few years, it’s good that they made it.

outworlder 7y ago

Spirit. The Lisa was a MUCH more powerful computer than the first Mac - which is why you needed a Lisa in the first place. The Mac wasn't able to run much of anything developed for the Lisa. Mac software was written in machine language, as I recall the Lisa made more use of higher level languages, so even the tool chain would be problematic. Check folklore.org for more stories of that time.

Crinus 7y ago
Specifically, Apple Pascal: http://pascal-central.com/images/pascalposter.jpg http://pascal-central.com/images/pascalposter.jpg (i want to recreate this in SVG and print a real poster out of it at some point). Although AFAIK the original Mac was also programmable with Pascal (in folklore it mentions that the calculator, etc were initially written in Pascal as examples for the API).
- Shivetya 7y ago
  the reason I went into Pascal was when I was younger I found out my favorite Apple II game; Wizardry; had been written in it. I think they used USCD Pascal. awhile back I was able to find recreated source of the game [1] ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/images/games/rpg/wizardry/wizardry_I/ Spreadsheet of game maps, etc. [2] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Mo1EoWXSnR5gNn5kAt9ftGV4DlVpK8gr_QOx0kKzeV4/edit#gid=0 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Mo1EoWXSnR5gNn5kAt9f... Wizardry III re engineered [3] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/comp.sys.apple2/wizardry/comp.sys.apple2/2oDJTbQaJWU/Vge7HkIcYYwJ https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/comp.sys.apple2/w...

mepian 7y ago

QuickDraw, the 2D graphics library, is probably the biggest part of the Lisa that lived on in the Mac.

valleyer 7y ago
Additionally, the Lisa Desktop Library contains many similarly named routines to the Mac Toolbox. The Lisa Desktop Library was never directly exposed to third-party applications though. (The Lisa Toolkit exposed it indirectly.) Lisa Desktop Library: https://www.apple.asimov.net/documentation/applelisa/AppleLisa%20-%20Desktop%20Library%20v3%20Interface.pdf https://www.apple.asimov.net/documentation/applelisa/AppleLi... As an example, the Lisa Desktop Library has PROCEDURE HiLiteMenu(menuId: INTEGER); The Xcode 11 beta that just came out this year still has <Menus.h> which includes... extern void HiliteMenu(MenuID menuID) AVAILABLE_MAC_OS_X_VERSION_10_0_AND_LATER;
- astrange 7y ago
  That function is inside an #if 32-bit, which means it no longer actually exists in 64-bit only macOS. I think AppleScript/Apple Events is the oldest technology still standing, but maybe printing and scanning is older.
  - valleyer 7y ago
    Good point! it is only usable from 32-bit apps, which don't run anymore. But -- if we want to be technical, the function still actually exists, since macOS menus are still driven by Carbon code. $ nm /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/HIToolbox | grep HiliteMenu 0000000000077d86 T _HiliteMenu That's kind of amazing to me!

masswerk 7y ago

Additionally to the other features mentioned, originally the file system, but without using any of the auto-repair abilities, the Lisa had. (This was soon to replaced by HFS+.)