13 ms·

College is broken. Anyone who paid and went for 4 years, knows its an inefficient use of time and money. What we need to do is stop glorifying college.

klbarry 16y ago
It would be amazing if there was similar financial support and culture around some other structured success environment - imagine $100,000 to spend learning a craft? You could become a god in four years of concentration, not worrying about a career.
- TomOfTTB 16y ago
  It would be interesting if someone could combine the two. Colleges give experience credit all the time. I wonder if an accredited institution could work with a company like Y-Combinator (which provides mentoring anyway) to create a business program that awarded a degree for going through a program in which you create a startup. There would certainly have to be gen ed considerations but Universities do those online now so it wouldn't be hard to make them available.
watty 16y ago
College isn't broken, it's just not for everyone. I don't regret my 4 years one bit, it was the best period of my life. I had some amazing social and educational experiences that I wouldn't have received had I not attended - who knew religion and geology could be so interesting? Most importantly I received a CS degree which helped me transition into the real world and be successful today. You may feel it was a waste of time and money but for me, it was a bargain.
- TomOfTTB 16y ago
  The point is there's nothing you get from college that you couldn't get for free somewhere else (Internet for info and Industry gatherings for social aspects). College puts it together in a nice, easy to digest package but they vastly over charge for it. The college model is still based around a philosophy from the 1800s when they were the sole providers of information.
  - watty 16y ago
    I agree that cost of college is too much - but you're not forced to go to a private or out of state school. In-state colleges are not terribly expensive, especially considering how many scholarships are available. As for getting the same experiences by not going, that's just silly. Sure the information is available online but it's not the same as actively participating in a lecture.
    - araneae 16y ago
      The other thing that isn't the same is the external validation- or failure. Most people who are learning on their own don't have the same hard deadlines and pressure to perform at a particular level. That pressure pushed me to work harder than I ever would have on my own; and that's the case for almost everyone, even autodidacts.
    - krschultz 16y ago
      Come on, I'm sure Wikipedia holds office hours on hard topics right? I spent a lot of time banging my head against the book (that you can buy from Amazon) and Googling, but eventually you run into things that only a professor's lecture, office hours, or your fellow classmates will teach you. That is what you are paying for. If you haven't run into that, you aren't taking classes that are hard enough or you are a genius. And even if you are a genius, you likely still struggle with hard topics sometimes.
      - pjscott 16y ago
        This is why I would love to see colleges move to a hybrid model, where they handle the things they're good at -- office hours, discussions, providing a community, that sort of thing -- and use the internet for stuff like delivering canned lectures.
  - enjo 16y ago
    I think colleges just do a terrible job of actually saying what they do. The purpose of an undergraduate education isn't the simple transfer of knowledge, it's more about "learning how to learn." The thing I've noticed about the self-educated is that they are absolute experts in the thing(s) that they're really interested. It is rare indeed to meet someone whose intellectual curiosity takes them to the places that a simple undergraduate education will. In college you were exposed to philosophy, literature, and a host of other things. That self-educated guy generally knows a lot about quantum mechanics, but has never bothered to read a classic novel or has never heard of Kant. All of those things form the basis and experience that allow you to learn from the world around you so much more efficiently. I don't think college is broken, I just think the expectation that college is somehow a four year skills-training institution is fundamentally flawed. My viewpoint on this has definitely evolved over the last decade. At 22, fresh from dropping out of college after my junior year, I would have written the same thing. A decade of experience has taught me the value of what I learned in college.
krschultz 16y ago
I don't know, I went to college for 4 years, graduated and make $75k. I could never have the job I have right now without the college. I paid nothing for college because I had a scholarship, but I'm well aware of what college loan debt looks like. My girlfriend is currently paying off about a BMW worth of college loans. I point that out becuase I drive a 6 year old car and she drives a 7 year old car. If you take out what we're paying for student loans (and we're very aggressively trying to get rid of them so we can eact start businesses without debt), we could take that money and each lease a BMW. Is that really that much of a sacrifice? I really think people are just overspending for college and it isn't the system that is broken, it is the decision making process high school students and their parents go through while picking their schools.
- wazzupflow 16y ago
  Funny, I dropped out of college and make the same 75k as a developer...and just the other day I was explaining to my friend (with a Masters in CS) why aliases wouldn't work with his cron job. BUT, I was lucky, I STILL had to do the work to learn my field (web dev) and I had a LOT tougher time getting here. I think the one problem I have with some graduates though (not my friend), is this idea that society OWES them a good job/promotion etc... because of their degree.
  - krschultz 16y ago
    Well I'm not a software developer, nor did I get a degree in CS. I did have a software development job without ever having taken a computer science class and did very well with it for 3 years. I still program for fun, but I like my job better than software engineering. I turned down more money programming for what I do now. But not all careers are like software development. That's why I said the job I have right now is not one I could have gotten without a degree. I notice the meme "college is a waste of time and money" thrown around all the time on the internet, usually by programmers, but what I really think they mean is "a computer science degree is a waste of time and money, and I also look down on liberal arts majors". So CS majors extrapolate "I can learn my field without college" onto "Everyone can learn their field without college", and don't realize that CS is the exception, not the rule. I took a bunch of CS classes including some grad ones and I think the only one that I learned considerably from was computer vision.

klbarry 16y ago

It would be amazing if there was similar financial support and culture around some other structured success environment - imagine $100,000 to spend learning a craft? You could become a god in four years of concentration, not worrying about a career.

TomOfTTB 16y ago
It would be interesting if someone could combine the two. Colleges give experience credit all the time. I wonder if an accredited institution could work with a company like Y-Combinator (which provides mentoring anyway) to create a business program that awarded a degree for going through a program in which you create a startup. There would certainly have to be gen ed considerations but Universities do those online now so it wouldn't be hard to make them available.

watty 16y ago

College isn't broken, it's just not for everyone. I don't regret my 4 years one bit, it was the best period of my life. I had some amazing social and educational experiences that I wouldn't have received had I not attended - who knew religion and geology could be so interesting? Most importantly I received a CS degree which helped me transition into the real world and be successful today. You may feel it was a waste of time and money but for me, it was a bargain.

TomOfTTB 16y ago
The point is there's nothing you get from college that you couldn't get for free somewhere else (Internet for info and Industry gatherings for social aspects). College puts it together in a nice, easy to digest package but they vastly over charge for it. The college model is still based around a philosophy from the 1800s when they were the sole providers of information.
- watty 16y ago
  I agree that cost of college is too much - but you're not forced to go to a private or out of state school. In-state colleges are not terribly expensive, especially considering how many scholarships are available. As for getting the same experiences by not going, that's just silly. Sure the information is available online but it's not the same as actively participating in a lecture.
  - araneae 16y ago
    The other thing that isn't the same is the external validation- or failure. Most people who are learning on their own don't have the same hard deadlines and pressure to perform at a particular level. That pressure pushed me to work harder than I ever would have on my own; and that's the case for almost everyone, even autodidacts.
  - krschultz 16y ago
    Come on, I'm sure Wikipedia holds office hours on hard topics right? I spent a lot of time banging my head against the book (that you can buy from Amazon) and Googling, but eventually you run into things that only a professor's lecture, office hours, or your fellow classmates will teach you. That is what you are paying for. If you haven't run into that, you aren't taking classes that are hard enough or you are a genius. And even if you are a genius, you likely still struggle with hard topics sometimes.
    - pjscott 16y ago
      This is why I would love to see colleges move to a hybrid model, where they handle the things they're good at -- office hours, discussions, providing a community, that sort of thing -- and use the internet for stuff like delivering canned lectures.
- enjo 16y ago
  I think colleges just do a terrible job of actually saying what they do. The purpose of an undergraduate education isn't the simple transfer of knowledge, it's more about "learning how to learn." The thing I've noticed about the self-educated is that they are absolute experts in the thing(s) that they're really interested. It is rare indeed to meet someone whose intellectual curiosity takes them to the places that a simple undergraduate education will. In college you were exposed to philosophy, literature, and a host of other things. That self-educated guy generally knows a lot about quantum mechanics, but has never bothered to read a classic novel or has never heard of Kant. All of those things form the basis and experience that allow you to learn from the world around you so much more efficiently. I don't think college is broken, I just think the expectation that college is somehow a four year skills-training institution is fundamentally flawed. My viewpoint on this has definitely evolved over the last decade. At 22, fresh from dropping out of college after my junior year, I would have written the same thing. A decade of experience has taught me the value of what I learned in college.

krschultz 16y ago

I don't know, I went to college for 4 years, graduated and make $75k. I could never have the job I have right now without the college. I paid nothing for college because I had a scholarship, but I'm well aware of what college loan debt looks like. My girlfriend is currently paying off about a BMW worth of college loans. I point that out becuase I drive a 6 year old car and she drives a 7 year old car. If you take out what we're paying for student loans (and we're very aggressively trying to get rid of them so we can eact start businesses without debt), we could take that money and each lease a BMW. Is that really that much of a sacrifice? I really think people are just overspending for college and it isn't the system that is broken, it is the decision making process high school students and their parents go through while picking their schools.

wazzupflow 16y ago
Funny, I dropped out of college and make the same 75k as a developer...and just the other day I was explaining to my friend (with a Masters in CS) why aliases wouldn't work with his cron job. BUT, I was lucky, I STILL had to do the work to learn my field (web dev) and I had a LOT tougher time getting here. I think the one problem I have with some graduates though (not my friend), is this idea that society OWES them a good job/promotion etc... because of their degree.
- krschultz 16y ago
  Well I'm not a software developer, nor did I get a degree in CS. I did have a software development job without ever having taken a computer science class and did very well with it for 3 years. I still program for fun, but I like my job better than software engineering. I turned down more money programming for what I do now. But not all careers are like software development. That's why I said the job I have right now is not one I could have gotten without a degree. I notice the meme "college is a waste of time and money" thrown around all the time on the internet, usually by programmers, but what I really think they mean is "a computer science degree is a waste of time and money, and I also look down on liberal arts majors". So CS majors extrapolate "I can learn my field without college" onto "Everyone can learn their field without college", and don't realize that CS is the exception, not the rule. I took a bunch of CS classes including some grad ones and I think the only one that I learned considerably from was computer vision.