6 ms·

I wonder what effects these foods have on the microbiome and health? I read an article this morning about two studies that linked ultraprocessed foods to cardio

I wonder what effects these foods have on the microbiome and health? I read an article this morning about two studies that linked ultraprocessed foods to cardiovascular problems and early death: https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/6/11/18652653/diet-weight-loss-ultra-processed-foods-microbiome https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/6/11/18652653/di... It seems like these foods fit in the category of "ultraprocessed", unfortunately.

mc32 7y ago
I think that depends on the process. Is it removing nutrients, replacing them with mostly additives and fillers to improve taste color and texture? What are they derived from?
- creaghpatr 7y ago
  I agree, what does 'processed' and 'ultraprocessed' mean in practice? Are there objective categorizations besides distinguishing between organic food and everything else?
  - notJim 7y ago
    They seem to be using the "NOVA" definitions from Monteiro et al., 2018, which are apparently summarized here: https://world.openfoodfacts.org/nova https://world.openfoodfacts.org/nova
alecco 7y ago
Sure, but I bet ultra-processed meat is worse than ultra-processed beans.
- notyourwork 7y ago
  I think in this context you mean ultra-processed "meat".
bduerst 7y ago
The human body is pretty resilient for most foods. While fortifying "ultra-processed" foods with simple sugars and hydrogenated fats have negative health effects, people have been consuming processed proteins for a while now without that much negativity. Problems arise when these faux meats are themselves over-fortified with simple sugars and trans fats, in order to mimic real meat. Then you're losing health benefits of eating the real thing, and you should be careful.
- sowhatquestion 7y ago
  This is the Soylent hypothesis. "Processed food" as such is not the problem—it's processed food used as a delivery vehicle for as many addictive sugars, fats, and simple carbs as possible. I would guess that the bad kind of processed food is much more common because it's both easier to make and more profitable (flour is cheap; oil is cheap; protein is expensive). The same hypothesis (that we can reclaim the idea of processed food for nutritionally complete foods) is also on display in a product like Vite Ramen which explicitly patterns itself after a nutritionally dubious staple food (i.e., instant ramen). I would expect to see more startups in this space in the next few years.
- rjf72 7y ago
  Does the current state of society not give you pause when you state that our bodies are so resilient to most foods? US obesity rates have nearly tripled in way less than a single generation, there are skyrocketing rates of mental illness, reduced academic achievement, and even evidence of a decline in IQ in developed nations. I find it challenging to attribute this entirely to lifestyle changes and the internet. In the mean time we have been increasingly introducing manufactured substances and products into our food systems that fit the timeline extremely well. Of course perhaps one problem is that we've introduced so many things that it's become impossible to discern cause from effect. Because while I find it difficult to attribute all change to lifestyle changes, that's undoubtedly played and is playing some role.
  - NoPicklez 7y ago
    You're correct, but I feel like that's a huge question that may be partially answered by processed foods, but not fully. For instance, work/life pressure results in stress, which could result in overeating which is easy to do given that not only is fast food more readily available than ever, but now so is restaurant quality foods though Uber. By ordering Uber at home you aren't going out, therefore you are being less social, which by being less social may lead to mental health issues. All the while not exercising and watching Netflix and sitting on social media looking at the lives of others. Very out there example, but I think it's all intertwined

mc32 7y ago

I think that depends on the process. Is it removing nutrients, replacing them with mostly additives and fillers to improve taste color and texture? What are they derived from?

creaghpatr 7y ago
I agree, what does 'processed' and 'ultraprocessed' mean in practice? Are there objective categorizations besides distinguishing between organic food and everything else?
- notJim 7y ago
  They seem to be using the "NOVA" definitions from Monteiro et al., 2018, which are apparently summarized here: https://world.openfoodfacts.org/nova https://world.openfoodfacts.org/nova

alecco 7y ago

Sure, but I bet ultra-processed meat is worse than ultra-processed beans.

notyourwork 7y ago
I think in this context you mean ultra-processed "meat".

bduerst 7y ago

The human body is pretty resilient for most foods. While fortifying "ultra-processed" foods with simple sugars and hydrogenated fats have negative health effects, people have been consuming processed proteins for a while now without that much negativity. Problems arise when these faux meats are themselves over-fortified with simple sugars and trans fats, in order to mimic real meat. Then you're losing health benefits of eating the real thing, and you should be careful.

sowhatquestion 7y ago
This is the Soylent hypothesis. "Processed food" as such is not the problem—it's processed food used as a delivery vehicle for as many addictive sugars, fats, and simple carbs as possible. I would guess that the bad kind of processed food is much more common because it's both easier to make and more profitable (flour is cheap; oil is cheap; protein is expensive). The same hypothesis (that we can reclaim the idea of processed food for nutritionally complete foods) is also on display in a product like Vite Ramen which explicitly patterns itself after a nutritionally dubious staple food (i.e., instant ramen). I would expect to see more startups in this space in the next few years.
rjf72 7y ago
Does the current state of society not give you pause when you state that our bodies are so resilient to most foods? US obesity rates have nearly tripled in way less than a single generation, there are skyrocketing rates of mental illness, reduced academic achievement, and even evidence of a decline in IQ in developed nations. I find it challenging to attribute this entirely to lifestyle changes and the internet. In the mean time we have been increasingly introducing manufactured substances and products into our food systems that fit the timeline extremely well. Of course perhaps one problem is that we've introduced so many things that it's become impossible to discern cause from effect. Because while I find it difficult to attribute all change to lifestyle changes, that's undoubtedly played and is playing some role.
- NoPicklez 7y ago
  You're correct, but I feel like that's a huge question that may be partially answered by processed foods, but not fully. For instance, work/life pressure results in stress, which could result in overeating which is easy to do given that not only is fast food more readily available than ever, but now so is restaurant quality foods though Uber. By ordering Uber at home you aren't going out, therefore you are being less social, which by being less social may lead to mental health issues. All the while not exercising and watching Netflix and sitting on social media looking at the lives of others. Very out there example, but I think it's all intertwined