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"How exactly would legalization hurt Mexico? Look at Portugal to see how we should all move towards dealing with drugs and addiction as a health problem instead

"How exactly would legalization hurt Mexico? Look at Portugal to see how we should all move towards dealing with drugs and addiction as a health problem instead of a criminal problem." Again the 'Portugal' argument is misplaced. Portugal has not legalized drugs. Portuguese Police will throw you in jail forever if they catch you with large amounts of any drugs. The material difference between Portugal and most other advanced nations is how they treat possession of small amounts - instead of jail, you get therapy. Great, I wish the same for America. But 'Legalizing hard drugs' is a complete different, position, it's not close to reasonable. Thanks to 'Fentanyl' the argument becomes glowingly problematic - OD's are skyrocketing everywhere, and 'overdose' now kills considerably more people than guns and cars every year. Given that OD's are rising rapidly, and the others are contained - OD's are soon going to be the cause of concern. Full legalization of 'hard drugs' would mean it's in your coca-cola (again), meth in your red bull, opiates for any little thing. Though many would stay away, and many frankly can 'handle their drugs' - a material chunk of civilization would be addicted, to the point it would be a massive mental health crisis. We are already pushing reforms to seriously limit the number of opioids prescribed because it's such an addiction problem. In Canada, you get sometimes 1, 2 or 3 opiate pills only (!) because of the concern. Decriminalization of small amounts may very well help. But 'legalization' of hard drugs will yield a health catastrophe pretty quickly. I'm always shocked at the sheer lack of understanding of social consequence in these forums. I get the 'Liberty' argument, I get 'Harm Reduction' (though it's not always a great story), I get 'thinking out loud' for bold new ideas. But legalization of hard drugs for most civilizations will yield destruction. The 'war on drugs' will continue for as long as they are addictive and powerful. Fentanyl is just the beginning.

w1nst0nsm1th 7y ago
You can legalize hard drug without them necessary being included in coca-cola or red bull. _Regulation_ is the master word here. States can forbid its inclusion in food and drink and control its distribution. Beside, the concern about "hard drugs" used recreationally, are the same as with alcohol. Prevention against abuse is the key to reasonnable use.
- sonnyblarney 7y ago
  "Beside, the concern about "hard drugs" used recreationally, are the same as with alcohol. " They are not, though. Weed (not a hard drug), sure. But meth, coke and opioids are not very much like alcohol at all really. I can see legalization of folks chewing on coca leaves maybe, i.e. something like coffee ... but beyond that ... I don't think it's going to work in any regulatory environment. The 'liberty' it provides the few who can a) handle their stuff and b) have safety nets (i.e. middle and upper class) is not enough to warrant the terrible effects it will have on others. These things are already a problem in some workplaces: construction, truck driving, because of the intensity of competition etc. - loosening the bounds just creates more problems. I do think we should decriminalize, but I don't think that our little party at Burning Man is worth the damage that it will wreak in other places.
velox_io 7y ago
There is quite a big difference between the prescription Fentanyl patches and the crap coming out of China and co. It is actually a very effective pain medication for those who need it, I've taken it before and lived to tell the tale. What poeple don't talk about is the damage that UNDER-prescription does, politicians (not doctors) are taking away what quality of life people do have left. People receiving pallative care are often being denied pain adiquate pain medication, I wouldn't call that civilised. This opioid chrisis stems from doctors carelessly prescriping pain medication and patients (who haven't been educated), being just as careless. The term 'pain killer' has done a huge amount of damage, if you try to kill your pain, you're going to have problems (very fine line between no pain and high), the goel is to be able to function, simple things like be able to sleep. I don't think Naloxone is helping matters, it provides a safety net allowing adicts to take ever higher doses.
- sonnyblarney 7y ago
  "This opioid chrisis stems from doctors carelessly prescriping pain medication and patients" Yes, so think of what would happen if you could buy opioids willy nilly, wherever. So yes, thanks - even with 'intelligent actors' in the system, it's also a problem. FYI - the crisis is definitely not just 'doctors' - it's a whole assembly of problems. Doctors can be misinformed, patients can be demanding, regulatory issues, pressure from drug companies. Apparently America is getting better at prescribing fewer opioids as well, so this is good, but 'getting smart about how to prescribe opioids' (which is good) is one part of the 'war on drugs'. As for medical uses of Fentanyl, super, that's great, all for it if there's legitimacy - but it's again it's going to 100% have to be 'a controlled substance', ergo, people arrested for smuggling quantities, which they will, ergo, 'war on drugs' continues.

w1nst0nsm1th 7y ago

You can legalize hard drug without them necessary being included in coca-cola or red bull. _Regulation_ is the master word here. States can forbid its inclusion in food and drink and control its distribution. Beside, the concern about "hard drugs" used recreationally, are the same as with alcohol. Prevention against abuse is the key to reasonnable use.

sonnyblarney 7y ago
"Beside, the concern about "hard drugs" used recreationally, are the same as with alcohol. " They are not, though. Weed (not a hard drug), sure. But meth, coke and opioids are not very much like alcohol at all really. I can see legalization of folks chewing on coca leaves maybe, i.e. something like coffee ... but beyond that ... I don't think it's going to work in any regulatory environment. The 'liberty' it provides the few who can a) handle their stuff and b) have safety nets (i.e. middle and upper class) is not enough to warrant the terrible effects it will have on others. These things are already a problem in some workplaces: construction, truck driving, because of the intensity of competition etc. - loosening the bounds just creates more problems. I do think we should decriminalize, but I don't think that our little party at Burning Man is worth the damage that it will wreak in other places.

velox_io 7y ago

There is quite a big difference between the prescription Fentanyl patches and the crap coming out of China and co. It is actually a very effective pain medication for those who need it, I've taken it before and lived to tell the tale. What poeple don't talk about is the damage that UNDER-prescription does, politicians (not doctors) are taking away what quality of life people do have left. People receiving pallative care are often being denied pain adiquate pain medication, I wouldn't call that civilised. This opioid chrisis stems from doctors carelessly prescriping pain medication and patients (who haven't been educated), being just as careless. The term 'pain killer' has done a huge amount of damage, if you try to kill your pain, you're going to have problems (very fine line between no pain and high), the goel is to be able to function, simple things like be able to sleep. I don't think Naloxone is helping matters, it provides a safety net allowing adicts to take ever higher doses.

sonnyblarney 7y ago
"This opioid chrisis stems from doctors carelessly prescriping pain medication and patients" Yes, so think of what would happen if you could buy opioids willy nilly, wherever. So yes, thanks - even with 'intelligent actors' in the system, it's also a problem. FYI - the crisis is definitely not just 'doctors' - it's a whole assembly of problems. Doctors can be misinformed, patients can be demanding, regulatory issues, pressure from drug companies. Apparently America is getting better at prescribing fewer opioids as well, so this is good, but 'getting smart about how to prescribe opioids' (which is good) is one part of the 'war on drugs'. As for medical uses of Fentanyl, super, that's great, all for it if there's legitimacy - but it's again it's going to 100% have to be 'a controlled substance', ergo, people arrested for smuggling quantities, which they will, ergo, 'war on drugs' continues.