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> but not a direct harm to others The argument is that public drug use is a harm to others. I don't see how shooting up on the street has anything to do with b

> but not a direct harm to others The argument is that public drug use is a harm to others. I don't see how shooting up on the street has anything to do with being trans. One is a public health hazard, the other is a personal choice. Yes there exists discrimination against trans people. That's an entirely separate issue that is not helpful to discuss with the original topic. We should be able to decide if we want second hand smoke, dirty needles, strung out people... in public without poisoning the debate well by bringing in non-related issues.

aisenik 7y ago
as a transgender woman I'm very consciously aware that I am considered by many the dregs of society -- worse than the drug addicts shitting on your streets. this is not a rational belief and it's not going away. it's this fundamental lack of perspective that leads to y'all blithely supporting policy that will end with egregious human rights violations. everything that sucks in our society is a result of how we've designed it. come to reality. your ideologies kill people. it really sucks that "tech" has been fully subsumed by capital -- many of the visionaries that made the endless wealth fountain possible shared a vision of an equitable future that brought a better world and it was rooted in anticapitalist, social justice oriented philosophy. that feels so dead, these days.
- malvosenior 7y ago
  While I absolutely believe that you get treated unfairly and that's a terrible thing, it has nothing to do with not wanting to step on needles or inhale crystal meth smoke. I don't even see why you're equating the two because one seems objectively horrible (hardcore drug use, with side effects, in public) and one isn't bad at all (being a trans person).
  - aisenik 7y ago
    because of this: everything that sucks is the result of a system we've designed. these people are victims of social views and policy as much as me. they aren't "hardcore drug use" they're people with a serious illness that develops as a result of something about our biology, culture, and environment.
    - malvosenior 7y ago
      They would be hurting other people if they used their drugs in public though, where you aren't. I also don't agree that people have no free will and can't be held responsible for their actions. Not everyone will make "good" choices and that's not society's fault. We need to reinstate some level of personal responsibility.
      - aisenik 7y ago
        you've jumped to a conclusion, that also denies agency to people, that i don't share. i believe strongly in accountability. which is why i believe, as a society, we must hold ourselves accountable and that means facing the hard truths such as: any of us posting here is wealthy in some way and that wealth has come at the cost of suffering and death in some way. the very least we can do in this (potentially last?) period of widespread economic development is work to build systems that are humane and healthy. it's not going to happen overnight, and it will never happen if we build a world that hides the unpleasant things from the public. we see the impact of the problem, but if your solution is to hide it then you haven't identified the actual problem and in this case externalizing the cost of actual human lives and suffering.
        malvosenior 7y ago
        Yes, I think we would never agree on most of this. For me accountability begins and ends the individual level. I can never be accountable for someone else's actions and they can never be accountable for mine.
        aisenik 7y ago
        I think generally in society we've accepted a structure in which the people with more power (e.g. higher in the org chart) are ostensibly responsible and accountable for the actions of those under them. This is largely the same concept. I do not understand how you expect to have a functional, just, and free society based solely on individual accountability if you can just externalize human suffering and stash it elsewhere

aisenik 7y ago

as a transgender woman I'm very consciously aware that I am considered by many the dregs of society -- worse than the drug addicts shitting on your streets. this is not a rational belief and it's not going away. it's this fundamental lack of perspective that leads to y'all blithely supporting policy that will end with egregious human rights violations. everything that sucks in our society is a result of how we've designed it. come to reality. your ideologies kill people. it really sucks that "tech" has been fully subsumed by capital -- many of the visionaries that made the endless wealth fountain possible shared a vision of an equitable future that brought a better world and it was rooted in anticapitalist, social justice oriented philosophy. that feels so dead, these days.

malvosenior 7y ago
While I absolutely believe that you get treated unfairly and that's a terrible thing, it has nothing to do with not wanting to step on needles or inhale crystal meth smoke. I don't even see why you're equating the two because one seems objectively horrible (hardcore drug use, with side effects, in public) and one isn't bad at all (being a trans person).
- aisenik 7y ago
  because of this: everything that sucks is the result of a system we've designed. these people are victims of social views and policy as much as me. they aren't "hardcore drug use" they're people with a serious illness that develops as a result of something about our biology, culture, and environment.
  - malvosenior 7y ago
    They would be hurting other people if they used their drugs in public though, where you aren't. I also don't agree that people have no free will and can't be held responsible for their actions. Not everyone will make "good" choices and that's not society's fault. We need to reinstate some level of personal responsibility.
    - aisenik 7y ago
      you've jumped to a conclusion, that also denies agency to people, that i don't share. i believe strongly in accountability. which is why i believe, as a society, we must hold ourselves accountable and that means facing the hard truths such as: any of us posting here is wealthy in some way and that wealth has come at the cost of suffering and death in some way. the very least we can do in this (potentially last?) period of widespread economic development is work to build systems that are humane and healthy. it's not going to happen overnight, and it will never happen if we build a world that hides the unpleasant things from the public. we see the impact of the problem, but if your solution is to hide it then you haven't identified the actual problem and in this case externalizing the cost of actual human lives and suffering.
      - malvosenior 7y ago
        Yes, I think we would never agree on most of this. For me accountability begins and ends the individual level. I can never be accountable for someone else's actions and they can never be accountable for mine.
        aisenik 7y ago
        I think generally in society we've accepted a structure in which the people with more power (e.g. higher in the org chart) are ostensibly responsible and accountable for the actions of those under them. This is largely the same concept. I do not understand how you expect to have a functional, just, and free society based solely on individual accountability if you can just externalize human suffering and stash it elsewhere