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Is FastMail really a good choice for privacy? I mean yeah, their feature set is awesome, they support (and develop! [1]) open standards and they sound pretty ge

Is FastMail really a good choice for privacy? I mean yeah, their feature set is awesome, they support (and develop! [1]) open standards and they sound pretty genuine. But they're based in Australia and given recent events ([2], [3]) I'm not sure if I would like to place my data in that country. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19839104 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19839104 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20113646 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20113646 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18616303 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18616303

nbrempel 7y ago
Fair point
- mfer 7y ago
  While IANAL, I'm not sure keeping email in a US company causes it to have privacy. For example, law enforcement in the US can subpoena email contents older than 180 days. No warrant required. Google's transparency report shows they've shared a lot of data. Google's support site has details on the process. Both Google and Fastmail have access to email. The encryption circumvention doesn't matter to Fastmail because they already complied with law enforcement just like Google does. I'd be curious if someone has details or an argument different from this.
ocdtrekkie 7y ago
I just responded to another comment about the FUD about Australian privacy concerns: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20166077 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20166077 tl;dr: The law passed doesn't affect FastMail at all, and your data is at least as private with FastMail as it is with Gmail, which also responds to lawful government requests for your data.
- t0astbread 7y ago
  Yes, I understand that. And I know that I might be spreading FUD here (which I wanna avoid). However I'm concerned that the Australian government (given their recent authoritarian actions) might be a little too quick to request my data from FastMail.
  - ocdtrekkie 7y ago
    But like... currently you're storing your data in the United States. I would argue that Australia's recent actions is more likely catching up to the status quo of other major nations than anything particularly egregious. If you have very strong concerns about the government requesting your data, you should look at end-to-end solutions like ProtonMail.
    - t0astbread 7y ago
      Oh I think there was a misunderstanding here! I never intended to say FastMail was worse than Google. FastMail (IMO) is still a better choice for lots of reasons. As for ProtonMail: Yes, I've been a ProtonMail customer for about half a year now. However I'm really dissatisfied on a number of ends: <opinion> - the bridge is a bad solution and it doesn't work well - the bridge doesn't exist on Android, tying me into their own client - their own client is proprietary and has GSF dependencies (optional, but still - privacy?) - (this might be due to technical constraints so it might be not valid but) they generally seem to have an aversion against standards - their technical team is slow and deadlines are (from what I've seen) meaningless - (possibly FUD but) the recent drama [1] </opinion> Don't get me wrong they're doing important work. And I believe them in the sense that they can do cryptography well and they're bringing (a good amount of) privacy to the masses. But they're not less problematic than any other major provider I'm aware of. In the end it boils down to everything sucks™. [1] https://steigerlegal.ch/2019/05/23/protonmail-real-time-surveillance/ https://steigerlegal.ch/2019/05/23/protonmail-real-time-surv...
- timbit42 7y ago
  All you did was argue it is no worse than Gmail for privacy, which is not good for privacy. I wouldn't use either.
  - ocdtrekkie 7y ago
    It's significantly better for privacy from private companies, because FastMail does not monetize your data and Google does. My point is that the impact of storing your email with an Australian company is not in itself a problem or increased compromise in your privacy.
    - xfer 7y ago
      I use Gsuite and no google doesn't monetize my data according to their privacy policy. Of course you are probably going to move the goal post how they could do it anyway and so can fastmail. In my eyes if i want privacy for sensitive emails i will use gpg.
mark_l_watson 7y ago
I used Fastmail for a few years and liked it. I recently switched to ProtonMail and it is also very good. ProtonMail provides a ‘bridge’ that makes email on a laptop very convenient and I like their iOS client. I still use gmail as a backup email, but I receive little email on it. Anyway, if you are concerned with Fastmail and the Australian government, I think you would also like ProtonMail.
- t0astbread 7y ago
  I already have ProtonMail but I'm not really happy with it [1]. For now, it's the best solution I have though, I agree. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20166820 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20166820

nbrempel 7y ago

Fair point

mfer 7y ago
While IANAL, I'm not sure keeping email in a US company causes it to have privacy. For example, law enforcement in the US can subpoena email contents older than 180 days. No warrant required. Google's transparency report shows they've shared a lot of data. Google's support site has details on the process. Both Google and Fastmail have access to email. The encryption circumvention doesn't matter to Fastmail because they already complied with law enforcement just like Google does. I'd be curious if someone has details or an argument different from this.

ocdtrekkie 7y ago

I just responded to another comment about the FUD about Australian privacy concerns: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20166077 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20166077 tl;dr: The law passed doesn't affect FastMail at all, and your data is at least as private with FastMail as it is with Gmail, which also responds to lawful government requests for your data.

t0astbread 7y ago
Yes, I understand that. And I know that I might be spreading FUD here (which I wanna avoid). However I'm concerned that the Australian government (given their recent authoritarian actions) might be a little too quick to request my data from FastMail.
- ocdtrekkie 7y ago
  But like... currently you're storing your data in the United States. I would argue that Australia's recent actions is more likely catching up to the status quo of other major nations than anything particularly egregious. If you have very strong concerns about the government requesting your data, you should look at end-to-end solutions like ProtonMail.
  - t0astbread 7y ago
    Oh I think there was a misunderstanding here! I never intended to say FastMail was worse than Google. FastMail (IMO) is still a better choice for lots of reasons. As for ProtonMail: Yes, I've been a ProtonMail customer for about half a year now. However I'm really dissatisfied on a number of ends: <opinion> - the bridge is a bad solution and it doesn't work well - the bridge doesn't exist on Android, tying me into their own client - their own client is proprietary and has GSF dependencies (optional, but still - privacy?) - (this might be due to technical constraints so it might be not valid but) they generally seem to have an aversion against standards - their technical team is slow and deadlines are (from what I've seen) meaningless - (possibly FUD but) the recent drama [1] </opinion> Don't get me wrong they're doing important work. And I believe them in the sense that they can do cryptography well and they're bringing (a good amount of) privacy to the masses. But they're not less problematic than any other major provider I'm aware of. In the end it boils down to everything sucks™. [1] https://steigerlegal.ch/2019/05/23/protonmail-real-time-surveillance/ https://steigerlegal.ch/2019/05/23/protonmail-real-time-surv...
timbit42 7y ago
All you did was argue it is no worse than Gmail for privacy, which is not good for privacy. I wouldn't use either.
- ocdtrekkie 7y ago
  It's significantly better for privacy from private companies, because FastMail does not monetize your data and Google does. My point is that the impact of storing your email with an Australian company is not in itself a problem or increased compromise in your privacy.
  - xfer 7y ago
    I use Gsuite and no google doesn't monetize my data according to their privacy policy. Of course you are probably going to move the goal post how they could do it anyway and so can fastmail. In my eyes if i want privacy for sensitive emails i will use gpg.

mark_l_watson 7y ago

I used Fastmail for a few years and liked it. I recently switched to ProtonMail and it is also very good. ProtonMail provides a ‘bridge’ that makes email on a laptop very convenient and I like their iOS client. I still use gmail as a backup email, but I receive little email on it. Anyway, if you are concerned with Fastmail and the Australian government, I think you would also like ProtonMail.

t0astbread 7y ago
I already have ProtonMail but I'm not really happy with it [1]. For now, it's the best solution I have though, I agree. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20166820 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20166820